Canoes and Wildlife

[DoraMac]

There is a stretch of river near to my home patch where I very occasionally see kingfishers but regularly see dippers. There are also recorded sightings of river otters.

This part of the river has also become very attractive to white water canoeists. They frequent there on every half decent weather day. Sometimes there are 2 or 3 vans carrying multiple canoes and people, parked up in the adjacent
layby.

Can the river support both this activity, and the wildlife dependent on it?

[nightshade]

Most canoeists are very aware but this is always a problem when the media urges people to get out into the countryside with their bikes and 4x4's
Just too much pressure on wildlife. I actually fear mountain bikers because they dont make a lot of noise until 15 stone hurtles towards you down a leafy footpath
Strangely 90% of them (illegaly) do not have bells but the police do not tear gas them
how unusual

[The Woodman]

In south Cumbria many of the rivers are used by canoeists and paddlers. For example, the Leven and Kent are both used by organised groups for events and independant paddlers and mavericks.

The majority of the paddling is done during the salmon close season and by arrangement with riparian owners, some under semi formal agreements. The levels are generally higher and more interesting at those times, too.

I've seen no detrimental impact to wildlife apart from the occassional disturbance to salmon and sea trout spawning areas at one noted launching site in particular. There has been much talk of disturbing spawning fish but from my observations they quickly move back onto their redds if frightened away. The damage comes from trampling on freshly cut redds in my opinion.

There are canoeing websites that advise on routes, some of these contain advice to portage around obstructions, launch and recover on private property. That's a different problem, however.

I believe the rivers can support canoeing - I'm not one myself - and strongly believe that if the participants follow codes of practice and local advice no harm will come to our wildlife.

There're more problems caused by thoughtless parking and/or the sheer numbers of cars in rural areas with narrow lanes on some events than anything else!

[wanlock dod]

Surely everybody has the right to enjoy the outdoors, provided that they do so responsibly. One might even suggest that the situation is conceptually comparable to groups of people going birdwatching at a nature reserve.

I would have thought it better that people are encouraged to enjoy the outdoors, in whatever manner they choose, so that they can develop better respect for it and the other creatures that they have to share it with when they are there. The alternative might be exclusion of all humans to make it a reserve which is free from any human activity (including yourself, rangers etc) but this would surely be more likely to alienate the general population to such places.

Nightshade - I have not yet cycled past a pedestrian whose ears were tuned so as to be able to hear a bell (they can hear everything else but tune out the sound of cyclists bells), and consequently after much ringing of them it is always necessary to resort to a rebel yell to warn them of ones presence.

Dod

[DoraMac]

Originally Posted by wanlock dod

Surely everybody has the right to enjoy the outdoors, provided that they do so responsibly. One might even suggest that the situation is conceptually comparable to groups of people going birdwatching at a nature reserve.

I would have thought it better that people are encouraged to enjoy the outdoors, in whatever manner they choose, so that they can develop better respect for it and the other creatures that they have to share it with when they are there. The alternative might be exclusion of all humans to make it a reserve which is free from any human activity (including yourself, rangers etc) but this would surely be more likely to alienate the general population to such places.

Nightshade - I have not yet cycled past a pedestrian whose ears were tuned so as to be able to hear a bell (they can hear everything else but tune out the sound of cyclists bells), and consequently after much ringing of them it is always necessary to resort to a rebel yell to warn them of ones presence.

Dod

Yes, I agree that there is a right to responsible enjoyment of the countryside.

Not sure if birdwatching and whitewater canoeing are the same concept though. In regard to the former the pleasure is derived from observing nature, while in regard to the latter the pleasure is derived from participating in a dangerous sport.

If this sort of canoeing does not interfere with the balance of the river, I do not have any issues about this sport. The canoeists always look cold, wet, miserable and grumpy anyway.

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by wanlock dod

Nightshade - I have not yet cycled past a pedestrian whose ears were tuned so as to be able to hear a bell (they can hear everything else but tune out the sound of cyclists bells), and consequently after much ringing of them it is always necessary to resort to a rebel yell to warn them of ones presence.

I've not had the experience of a cyclist ringing their bell at me, but it's possible I wouldn't hear it anyway. I have tinnitus (from shooting without ear defenders) with 'bells' ringing in my ears 24/7!

Jim

[Bobbobthebob]

Originally Posted by DoraMac

Yes, I agree that there is a right to responsible enjoyment of the countryside.

Not sure if birdwatching and whitewater canoeing are the same concept though. In regard to the former the pleasure is derived from observing nature, while in regard to the latter the pleasure is derived from participating in a dangerous sport.

If this sort of canoeing does not interfere with the balance of the river, I do not have any issues about this sport. The canoeists always look cold, wet, miserable and grumpy anyway.

I’ve done a bit of white water kayaking and it’s a lot of fun – surfing standing waves, boofing off ledges etc. While it can be dangerous, the fun is more derived from riding a natural roller-coaster without ending up upside down. They probably look miserable afterwards when they’re standing around in wet gear in the cold - I’ve heard horror stories from students kayaking in winter and defrosting their wetsuits on the bonnet of their minibus.

A tiny fraction (~2%) of the UK's inland waterways are available for canoeists to use. Consequently areas that do provide access will attract relatively large numbers of canoeists. While it may be distressing to you that your local bit of whitewater is used, much of the same habitat across the country is out of bounds to them. Also, as the weather gets warmer and it rains less, you will see fewer canoeists with the dropping water level.

[Johnny Redgate]

Originally Posted by DoraMac

Not sure if birdwatching and whitewater canoeing are the same concept though. In regard to the former the pleasure is derived from observing nature, while in regard to the latter the pleasure is derived from participating in a dangerous sport.

Well I guess we all like to think that it is not our chosen activity that causes the most disturbance, and the observation of nature is certainly capable of such disturbance. My own outdoor activity for many years was climbing which ought to be low disturbance. But there is erosion around the cliffs, cleaning of vegetation from the rock faces and disturbance to nesting birds to worry about. Such problems are managed by access agreements and the fact that many cliffs are inaccessible or very rarely visited - who climbs the Devil's Staircase next to the Devil's Kitchen at Cwm Idwal these days (other than o;d fashioned types like me)? I have got concerns about mixed winter climbing - climbing on rock, ice and frozen turf - especially on mountains like Liathach or Benn Eighe, but its not an activity large numbers of people participate in.

I strongly agree with Dod that it is better to encourage people to enjoy the outdoors than not.

[nightshade]

Originally Posted by wanlock dod

Surely everybody has the right to enjoy the outdoors, provided that they do so responsibly. One might even suggest that the situation is conceptually comparable to groups of people going birdwatching at a nature reserve.

I would have thought it better that people are encouraged to enjoy the outdoors, in whatever manner they choose, so that they can develop better respect for it and the other creatures that they have to share it with when they are there. The alternative might be exclusion of all humans to make it a reserve which is free from any human activity (including yourself, rangers etc) but this would surely be more likely to alienate the general population to such places.

Nightshade - I have not yet cycled past a pedestrian whose ears were tuned so as to be able to hear a bell (they can hear everything else but tune out the sound of cyclists bells), and consequently after much ringing of them it is always necessary to resort to a rebel yell to warn them of ones presence.

Dod

A working bell is a legal requirement, if you do not have one you cannot sound it to see if it will alert pedestrians.
Yelling is an assault, so m'Lud this 15stone lycra clad ruffian had no bell/did not bother to ring it, he /she yelled at me I was so shocked at being yelled at at I froze ......... If you have an accident and it was not your fault .......
Cyclists are very single minded A to B, change gear, adjust sun shields pedal faster, In two three, out two three ......... Bump! readjust shades, what was that? in two three, out two three

[DoraMac]

Originally Posted by Johnny Redgate

I strongly agree with Dod that it is better to encourage people to enjoy the outdoors than not.

Me too. I just was enquiring as to whether or not white water canoeing had any serious impact on the river environment. If not, I have absolutely no objections.