Cyclists & Bike Owners

[KeenTeen17]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

I don't want to hijack the thread KT, but perhaps I should clarify what I meant.

I am a keen cyclist, I do about 5000miles a year (try to average 100mile/week).

Out cycling, I see many other (so called) cyclists who: -

Ride through red lights
Ride on the pavement
Ride against the traffic flow
Ride without lights at night
Ride two or three abreast and don't go single file to allow cars to pass
Ride mountain bikes on footpaths
Disobey "no cycling" signage

All of which gets proper cyclists tarred with the same brush as "lycra louts"

Cycling is great exercise and good fun, but it will never gain the respect of the general non-cycling public, particularly a great many car drivers (and yes I am a car driver myself), when there are so many bike riding idiots around.

Rant over - back to the theme of plant locations
Regards
Mike.

I can't drive yet and my bike is my mode of transport. After taking up geocaching, I have been getting out and about a lot these past few months.
This post just got me thinking. I don't think theres anything wrong with riding on the pavement. Sometimes the roads are too dangerous for cyclists especially at rush hour.

I don't really see what harm a mountain bike is on the pavement

[charlieb]

What about when a group of old lady's and gents or parent with double push chair and toddler comes round the corner?

Either you hit the old folks or go careering onto the road into a moving car.

[Lancashire Lad]

It is against the law KT - whether you agree with it or not, it is against the law.

To be honest though, I judge each case on the situation.

If for example it was a child, or someone riding fairly slowly - giving due regard to pedestrians, then it doesn't bother me at all.

I accept that the roads can be daunting for some folk, and are definitely not the best place for the timid, or for youngsters.

However, when I see teenage (or even adult) idiots flying down pavements, with no regard whatsoever for other legitimate pavement users, it really makes my blood boil.

My bikes are out and out road bikes, and I use them solely on the roads.
I would say that I am a confident cyclist. I know my rights, and by my actions whilst riding, I demand that other road users acknowledge my presence, and give me space to legitimately go about my cycling.

I always wear high visibility cycling jacket or shirt, and would never think of cycling without a helmet.
Yes - uncool it may be, but I got thrown over the bonnet of a car four years ago, by an idiot reversing out in front of me. Luckily I only had cuts and grazes, (along with £800 damage to my bike), but my helmet was severely damaged when my head hit the ground. - Much better to have a broken helmet than a broken head ).

Even after that, and a couple less major mishaps, I'm still a great believer in the benefits of cycling. But some of the people who ride bikes just don't have a clue. (Well they do, but they choose to go by the "I'll do whatever I want" attitude, regardless of laws/regulations, which gets cyclists in general a bad name).

Regards,
Mike.

[NJP87]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

It is against the law KT - whether you agree with it or not, it is against the law.

To be honest though, I judge each case on the situation.

If for example it was a child, or someone riding fairly slowly - giving due regard to pedestrians, then it doesn't bother me at all.
Regards,
Mike.

Totally agree, if you need to use the pavement then ride solwly and sensibly, or get off and push it.

MTB's on footpaths i don't mind if it's quiet, especially as most paths are very poorly signed and it's hard to know where you can't cycle.

[kiff]

Originally Posted by KeenTeen17

I don't think theres anything wrong with riding on the pavement. Sometimes the roads are too dangerous for cyclists especially at rush hour.

I don't really see what harm a mountain bike is on the pavement

Sorry but my mum 72 years old was knocked down by a fool riding he's bike on the pavement, he like you could not see any thing wrong with what he was doing, if you need to go on the pavement then got off and push it or stay on the road, yes the roads can be dangerous for cyclist but cyclists that ride on the pavement make the pavements dangerous for pedestrians

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by kiff

Sorry but my mum 72 years old was knocked down by a fool riding he's bike on the pavement, he like you could not see any thing wrong with what he was doing, if you need to go on the pavement then got off and push it or stay on the road, yes the roads can be dangerous for cyclist but cyclists that ride on the pavement make the pavements dangerous for pedestrians

Some idiot crashed into me and my dog he fell of his bike trying to avoid us in a narrow alleyway with blind corners that had clear no cycling signs at each entrance..
He was petty old so should have known better..

[earthdragon64]

I think that it is high time that cyclists had to pass some kind of test and get a licence before being allowed to ride a bike in public. Cycle hire shops should have to see a licence before allowing someone to hire a bike. Most cyclists are fine, but there is a significant minority who are dangerous.

I live in an area with quite a lot of cyclists about, both locals and those on holiday, and some of them just shouldn't be allowed out. I often park my car in a car park which is near a cycle hire shop, and always have to be on the look out for people trying out the bike they may hire, weaving in and out of the parked cars and suddenly pulling across the front of me.

I have lost count of the times that a cyclist has shot out of a side road in front of me, causing me to have to brake hard to avoid them, and it isn't because I'm driving too fast, I always drive within the speed limit. On some of the narrow roads locally, it isn't uncommon to drive around a corner and find cyclists riding two or more abreast blocking the road.

My biggest bugbear though is why cyclists ride on a main road when there is a perfectly good cycle track just yards away. Highland council has recently spent a lot of money to put in a cycle track/footpath up to Glenmore, but some cyclists still insist on riding on the road which is really busy with tourist traffic and buses. There is also a cycle track running alongside the A9 on the approach to Slochd summit, which has had several fatal accidents on it, but again, some cyclists still ride on the road, why?

[SheffieldLass]

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

My biggest bugbear though is why cyclists ride on a main road when there is a perfectly good cycle track just yards away. Highland council has recently spent a lot of money to put in a cycle track/footpath up to Glenmore, but some cyclists still insist on riding on the road which is really busy with tourist traffic and buses. There is also a cycle track running alongside the A9 on the approach to Slochd summit, which has had several fatal accidents on it, but again, some cyclists still ride on the road, why?

Sometimes the cycleways are unsuitable for cycling. They may be littered with stones, potholes and glass, or be encroached by overgrown hedges. They may mean you have to stop every 50 yards as you lose the right of way at every side road that you meet, no good if you are actually trying to get somewhere. Or even if you have the right of way, motorists fail to recognise it, so you are put at greater risk. They may be full of pedestrians, so you can't make progress. Many are very poorly thought out, designed by people who have clearly not ever been keen or commuter cyclists, don't seem to realise that being forced to stop every minute does not make an acceptable cycle route.

I agree with Mike, and agree with every item on his list (I used to do a similar mileage to him by bike until very recently, so a serious cyclist) .. there are unfortunately too many lycra louts who then give all cyclists a bad name. I suspect the same people are also antisocial/dangerous drivers when behind the wheel.

Melanie

[agrumpycow]

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

I
My biggest bugbear though is why cyclists ride on a main road when there is a perfectly good cycle track just yards away.........

A point I 100% agree with, it makes me so mad
As a car driver and occasional cyclist I can see both points of view. I can also only comment on the roads near where I live but there is a very well kept, well signposted and suitable cycle path along the A329 here near me. Yet cyclist continually insist of cycling on the dual carriageway slowing cars in the inside lane to a crawl or risking accidents by having to swerve into the other lane. It's ridiculous! It's a wonder there are not more accidents involving these cyclists who don't see or (I suspect) don't choose to use the cycle path. If it was poorly maintained, etc. fair enough but it isn't!
Rant over

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

....Most cyclists are fine, but there is a significant minority who are dangerous....

I am pleased you accept that most cyclists are fine. What I cannot stand, are the oft heard generalisations that some people make, with ludicrous statements like "all cyclists should be banned from the roads etc. etc."

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

....My biggest bugbear though is why cyclists ride on a main road when there is a perfectly good cycle track just yards away. Highland council has recently spent a lot of money to put in a cycle track/footpath up to Glenmore, but some cyclists still insist on riding on the road which is really busy with tourist traffic and buses. There is also a cycle track running alongside the A9 on the approach to Slochd summit, which has had several fatal accidents on it, but again, some cyclists still ride on the road, why?...

Cycle lanes are for the most part, provided for the slower, or more timid, or younger cyclists. They are often completely useless as a viable route, having been constucted purely by councils thinking more about their "perceived" green policies, than any actual thought for the safety of cyclists.

I don't particularly want to divert this thread into that specific area, but I could bore you with countless examples of totally useless, and in some cases downright dangerous cycle lanes.

Proper road cyclists, and I mean those who abide by the rules of the road , will almost unanimously avoid cycle lanes, because they just don't allow a good (road) cyclist to maintain good speeds - too many kerbs, silly junctions, and quick changes of direction, etc. etc. (As I say, even when cycle lanes are of sufficient length to make them viable, they are mostly constructed with the slower cyclist in mind).

You may (possibly) argue that if there is a cycle lane there, then it would be incumbent upon all cyclists to use it. Not so - there is no legal requirement for cyclists to use these facilities. There is however, a legal requirement for vehicle drivers to abide by the highway code with respect to travelling alongside cycle lanes.

A good cyclist obeying the rules of the road is no hindrance to traffic flow, but quite a few drivers seem to think it is good fun to overtake giving minimal clearance to frighten the cyclist. Such games are dicing with death, because cyclists do need room to manouvre around potholes and other road debris.

As a driver, as well as a cyclist, I can see things from both sides of the argument, but if both cyclists and drivers always behaved responsibly, the roads would be safe enough for all.

Regards
Mike.

[SheffieldLass]

You can tell that Mike is a very experienced cyclist ...

What many non-cycling people or casual cyclists forget is that a fit road cyclist is typically travelling an average speed of 15-25mph on level open road, maybe more, and easily 30mph on downhill stretches. Many cycle routes just do not allow for that type of speed.

Regards
Melanie

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by SheffieldLass

....What many non-cycling people or casual cyclists forget is that a fit road cyclist is typically travelling an average speed of 15-25mph on level open road, maybe more, and easily 30mph on downhill stretches. Many cycle routes just do not allow for that type of speed....

Couldn't agree more.

I would expect to average about 22mph overall, and can easily reach 40mph going down some of the hills around here.
(The reaction of some drivers seeing a cyclist keeping up with them at 30-40mph is quite amusing sometimes ).

Regards,
Mike.

[SheffieldLass]

And also that they are cycling in a day maybe 40 to 100+ miles. I used to do between 60 and 90 miles on a day trip. You just can't do that if you are having to stop every 50 yards ...

Melanie

[Meta menardi]

The bike lanes round here are quite odd. Wide flat and well marked where the road is wide flat and well marked, then they disappear at any difficult bits on the road, just where you think "I could do with a little refuge from the cars".

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Meta menardi

The bike lanes round here are quite odd. Wide flat and well marked where the road is wide flat and well marked, then they disappear at any difficult bits on the road, just where you think "I could do with a little refuge from the cars".

Typical of what I mean when I say that many of these lanes are useless.
Many such ill-conceived lanes are provided because councils can obtain grants towards the cost, but the money doesn't stretch as far as would be needed to actually create a safer road layout.

Consequently they just put the cycle lanes wherever there is a bit more space on the road, (where they are least needed), and then they pat themselves on the back saying "look what good boys we are, we have provided "X" miles of cycle lanes".

(When in truth, "X" minus 99% will more than likely be the extent of the usefulness of those lanes ).

Regards,
Mike.

[earthdragon64]

If so many cycle lanes are useless, then perhaps it is time that our councils stopped spending money on them. Certainly the cycle track to Glenmore was presented to the public as a way of removing cyclists from a busy road, into a safe area.

I'm not bothered by having to slow down to pass law-abiding cyclists, I'm never in that much of a rush to get anywhere, what concerns me are the minority who ride in such a way that they endanger my life, and the lives of others. It seems crazy that under current legislation, anyone can buy or hire a bike and ride on a road with no experience or understanding of safety and the highway code.

As far as car drivers go, I have always believed that the driving test should be far tougher than it is currently, and there should be a bit less emphasis on only prosecuting speeding, and a lot more emphasis on prosecuting those drivers who exhibit poor driving skills with the aim of getting them off the roads if they don't improve.

[PMG]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

Couldn't agree more.

I would expect to average about 22mph overall, and can easily reach 40mph going down some of the hills around here.
(The reaction of some drivers seeing a cyclist keeping up with them at 30-40mph is quite amusing sometimes ).

Regards,
Mike.

I had a cyclist overtake me a few days ago - what he did was stupid and dangerous but he was annoyed with me and decided that was the best way to show it - how I avoided knocking him off I'll never know and how I didn't get out and shake him till his teeth rattled I'll never know that either ......... I was going up a steep narrow bit of road in south lakes that does not allow a car coming towards you to pass so I was being careful in the knowledge I may have to stop, despite the hill and having right of way, if someone came tearing down the other way. The fool on the bike was not willing to take it that slowly having come down the hill behind me nigh on 30 plus mph - so the daft begger shot round and overtook me and cut me up (I had to swerve in)glaring as he did so - had a car appeared the opposite way at speed he would have been glaring up from underneath it somewhere ........

I used to ride a bycycle (and a motor bike) when I was younger so I'm not against this mode of transport at all - but its high time cyclists had insurance to share the road with other vehicles esp if like this idiot they are going to ride a bike in a beligerent manner. Car drivers esp if bikers are mindful of bikes but its rubbing salt in when a cyclist behaves like this just cos he's fit enough to get such speeds up and behave like a two-wheeled speed junkie!

Rant over ..........

Pauline

[KeenTeen17]

When we are talking about cycle lanes are we talking about the lined off sides of a wide road or a dual footpath / cycling pavement?

[agrumpycow]

I think there is a distinct difference it certain cyclists. The ones I feel most confident of when driving are those who are experienced, cycle with confidence & follow the basis rules of the road. I have no problem with these cyclists using the road rather than a cycle path.
The cyclists I have a problem with are the ones who cycle so slowly that they can't help but weave around, move without signalling and, as Pauline says, try and overtake you and ones who have bags hanging from both handlebars which they chat on their mobile while cycling !
When I get my bike out I'm no way near as fast as some of you have mentioned but I hope I cycle with confidence and with other road users in mind.
I'm sure it's probably very unworkable, I have no idea how it could work, but if only people had to have some kind of compulsory proficiency test.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by PMG

....I had a cyclist overtake me a few days ago....

I entirely agree with you - you can't legislate for fools (no matter what they are riding/driving).

Originally Posted by PMG

....its high time cyclists had insurance to share the road with other vehicles....

I do have insurance, with maximum liability of £10,000,000 (Ten Million), via the CTC. (And it was their legal team who successfully won my case against the driver whos stupid manouvre caused me to fly ungraciously across her car's bonnet).

Originally Posted by agrumpycow

....and ones who have bags hanging from both handlebars which they chat on their mobile while cycling....

I don't disagree with you, but have to say, I too have seen the above example of stupidity, and I don't care what anyone says, no-one, and I mean no-one, can properly control a bycycle with shopping bags dangling from the handlebars. Utter mindless stupidity.

Originally Posted by agrumpycow

....When I get my bike out I'm no way near as fast as some of you have mentioned but I hope I cycle with confidence and with other road users in mind....

Nothing wrong with being slow in my book. As long as a cyclist is obeying the rules of the road, and has good cognizance of what's going on around them, no problem. And if more drivers behaved with a little more consideration than they do, cycling would be a lot safer no matter what speed you were riding at. (It's quite strange that cyclists in general are only percieved as a problem, by those drivers who in reality are not very good drivers. ).

Originally Posted by agrumpycow

....I'm sure it's probably very unworkable, I have no idea how it could work, but if only people had to have some kind of compulsory proficiency test....

I agree, with respect to the teaching of children. I think there should be compulsory training via schools. I doubt whether it would work for adults though, as without some sort of legally required "bicycling licence", there would be so many loopholes it wouldn't be enforceable.

Regards,
Mike.

[foxy mars]

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

I think that it is high time that cyclists had to pass some kind of test and get a licence before being allowed to ride a bike in public.

I don't think there will ever licence cyclists, the idea was thought up years ago and was thrown out, due to being a time/money waster.

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

I live in an area with quite a lot of cyclists about, both locals and those on holiday, and some of them just shouldn't be allowed out.

I would of thought that would be a good thing to see, being good exercise.

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

I have lost count of the times that a cyclist has shot out of a side road in front of me, causing me to have to brake hard to avoid them.

I can say the same about cars flying out from side roads, some car drivers are simply just imprudent.

Originally Posted by earthdragon64

My biggest bugbear though is why cyclists ride on a main road when there is a perfectly good cycle track just yards away.

Most cyclists are die-hard rebels and are still titled to ride on the road, the cycle-path is there for choice and safety. I know of one old cyclist who regularly cycled on the A19, in the peak period and there is a cycle-path next to it which is separated by bushes. I mean it is a lovely cycle-path, one that I use to/from work, but you can't make the old chap to cycle on the cycle-path, that's his choice.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by foxy mars

....Most cyclists are die-hard rebels....

Sorry foxy mars, but I feel compelled to comment upon this statement, as it is yet another generalisation that could be construed as confrontational by many of the anti-cycling brigade.

Most (law abiding) cyclists are not in any way rebellious. Would you make a similar statement saying most drivers are die hard rebels?

Let us be quite categoric about the facts. Cyclists are 100% entitled to use public roads. The use of cycle lanes is entirely optional. There is no legal, moral, or implied requirement to make use of them, and the choice not to do so should not be associated with rebellious behaviour.

There are good cyclists and there are bad cyclists, just as there are good and bad drivers, but regardless of whether pro or anti cycling, I would stress to everyone that cyclists are probably the most endangered of all road users, and implore all drivers to apply a little common sense when a cyclist is encountered.

Just some food for thought for some of the less sympathetic drivers out there: -
How many cyclists do you encounter on your daily travels? Five or six maybe?
OK - So you may need to slow down for five or ten seconds until a suitable spot for overtaking appears. Overall, you might lose a full minute of time on your journey - Is that such a big problem that you would rather risk manslaughter?
Likewise - How many other cars do you encounter on your daily travels? Several hundred I should imagine. Now, considering that between 15 and 20 percent of all cars on the roads are non legal, (uninsured, driver unlicenced etc. etc.), which would you rather have? illegal cars, and there are about 3 million of them driving around in Britain, or a few fully legal cyclists?

Regards,
Mike.

[KeenTeen17]

I think I forgot about pedestrians on my other post. I wouldn't ride on a pavement around a retirement home or somewhere similar. I usually ride on country roads and less public places. The only time I ever ride on paths is on the way up a big hill just in case I fall off or something and into the path of a car trying to overtake. Even some of the big hills I push it up on the path.

And regarding the helmets in Mike's post: I always wear a HiVis jacket and helmet and I don't really care if I ride into college wearing them looking like a "dork". At least I have rode into college alive

[Meta menardi]

Of course, one reason for not cycling on the pavement is that you will scratch the cars that are blocking most of the pavements round here.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by eeyore

you're right mike , but i also wish that more cyclists would read and abide by the highway code.

I'm not anti cyclist at all , but i'm anti irresponsible use of any vehicle be it motorised or not - and that includes cycling three abreast on roads, cycling on footpaths, cycling on pavements , cycling at night wearing all black clothing and not showing lights, deliberately weaving in and out to stop vehicles overtaking etc etc

and its not adefence to these behaviours to say - well some car drivers behave irresponsibly too...

I agree with everything you have said. In fact you have almost replicated my original list of pet cycling hates : -

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

Ride through red lights
Ride on the pavement
Ride against the traffic flow
Ride without lights at night
Ride two or three abreast and don't go single file to allow cars to pass
Ride mountain bikes on footpaths
Disobey "no cycling" signage

All of which gets proper cyclists tarred with the same brush as "lycra louts"

Cycling is great exercise and good fun, but it will never gain the respect of the general non-cycling public, particularly a great many car drivers (and yes I am a car driver myself), when there are so many bike riding idiots around.

Regards,
Mike.