Tick bites!

[BigAl]

Lyme Disease isendemic mainly in thew New Forest in the UK.

You can get proprietary tick tweezers to remove the ticks either from yourseld or from a pet - probably from a veterinary surgery or from Boots.

You have to pull the tick off steadily using a twisting motion, either clockwise or ACW. This is to ensure that the head is not left embedded or it could give rise to an infection - this is the greatest risk.

Ticks seem to be particularly rise this year, we've remove several from ou dog, and I've had a couple in the groin area.

An alternative, especially if you get one while out on a picnic, is to smear it with something greasy like butter, margarine or vaseline. This blocks up the tick's breathing pores and essentially suffocates it, so it eventually drops off.

[celiar]

Originally Posted by BigAl

Lyme Disease isendemic mainly in thew New Forest in the UK.

Lyme disease is only actually recognised as being endemic in Scotland, and it is a notifiable disease there. There are 'hot spots' in the rest of the UK but in fact cases of Lyme disease have been reported from 80% of the regions of England and Wales, so we have to assume that nowhere is safe!

Originally Posted by BigAl

You can get proprietary tick tweezers to remove the ticks either from yourseld or from a pet - probably from a veterinary surgery or from Boots.

You have to pull the tick off steadily using a twisting motion, either clockwise or ACW. This is to ensure that the head is not left embedded or it could give rise to an infection - this is the greatest risk.

There is a fabulous little tool that is used by many gamekeepers and it is recommended by many vets too. It's called an O'Tom Tick Twister, I have no affiliation with the company at all, I've just found it to be the most effective and easiest way of getting them off my dog.

Originally Posted by BigAl

An alternative, especially if you get one while out on a picnic, is to smear it with something greasy like butter, margarine or vaseline. This blocks up the tick's breathing pores and essentially suffocates it, so it eventually drops off.

If you stress a tick by smothering it with butter, vaseline, whisky, surgical spirits or anything else, as you said it suffocates it. It will eventually drop off, but because it is being stressed it will first regurgitate the contents of it's gut, together with any infectious organisms it may be carrying, back into its host, whether that be human or animal. Its survival instinct, when under stress, is to make itself small in order to make its escape easier, and to do this it vomits the contents of its stomach. Believe me you do not want that going back into you or your pet! Trying to burn them off with a cigarette or something similar has the same effect.

People should also NEVER use their fingers to try to pull a tick off. Squeezing a tick will have the same effect as trying to smother it, and if your fingers are in the vicinity when it regurgitates the contents of its stomach, bacteria can enter through the tiniest cut you may have, or it can be transferred by mucous membranes if you were to touch your mouth or stick your finger up your nose afterwards!

The safest way to remove embedded ticks is to use fine long-nosed tweezers. Grasp the tick as close to the hosts skin as possible and pull upwards with steady even pressure. Or use a Tick Twister which is even easier. These methods are far less liable to make the tick 'panic'.

See: http://www.bada-uk.org/leaflets.html

Click on 'Outdoor pursuits' leaflet, and as well as information on the various infections that can be transmitted by infected ticks, on the second page is a detailed description of how to remove ticks safely.

As a lover of the outdoors and wildlife, but also as a 'Lyme' disease sufferer, I really want people to continue to enjoy their outdoor hobbies, but also to avoid becoming ill if at all possible.

[troutmask]

Originally Posted by Rich_

I have been bitten and stung by many things over the years, and never bothered too much but it's the first time I have been knowingly hit by a tick, it was other peoples reactions to this and the mention of lyme disease that made me want to find out a bit more.
I called at a doctors to ask him what the chances of picking this illness up were as I believed it was probably quite miniscule. He has actually given me a weeks worth of penicillin as a precaution! Told him I wasn't too keen on pills if the chances of picking it up were so low, but he seemed to think it was a good idea.

I suggest you get a new doctor, one who actually knows what anti-biotics are for. They are certainly not "for protection" and using them in this way is why many anti biotics (penicillin in particular) don't work any more.
The chances of catching Lymes from a tick bite are remote. Penicillin dosn't work against Lymes. If you have caught Lymes you will develop flu type symptoms and should go to a doctor (not this one by the sound of it).
Tick bites are anoying, but not usually dangerous. make sure you remove them correctly, as described by a previous poster you need to grab them as close to the skin as possible and twist to release their barbs. If you squeeze or yank them out the bit that remains can go septic and get very painful (I have personal experience!). You might need an anti biotic in that case and if you have been taking them for protection then the bugs will be immune; natural selection soon sees to that (for the creationists amonst you, God comes along and makes a new bug that isn't harmed by the anti-biotic!)

[celiar]

Originally Posted by troutmask

I suggest you get a new doctor, one who actually knows what anti-biotics are for. They are certainly not "for protection" and using them in this way is why many anti biotics (penicillin in particular) don't work any more.
The chances of catching Lymes from a tick bite are remote. Penicillin dosn't work against Lymes. If you have caught Lymes you will develop flu type symptoms and should go to a doctor (not this one by the sound of it).
Tick bites are anoying, but not usually dangerous. make sure you remove them correctly, as described by a previous poster you need to grab them as close to the skin as possible and twist to release their barbs. If you squeeze or yank them out the bit that remains can go septic and get very painful (I have personal experience!). You might need an anti biotic in that case and if you have been taking them for protection then the bugs will be immune; natural selection soon sees to that (for the creationists amonst you, God comes along and makes a new bug that isn't harmed by the anti-biotic!)

AAAAAAAARGH!!!

The chances of catching Lymes from a tick bite are remote.

Tick bites are anoying, but not usually dangerous.

The chances of catching Lyme (not Lyme’s) disease as well as other tick-borne infections are NOT as remote as you would like to think!

Ticks are known to feed on, and be transported by, all manner of wildlife, farm animal, birds, rodents, and domestic pets. Tick bites are becoming more dangerous because currently the various infections they can impart are spreading unabated amongst our native wildlife, birdlife, and domestic pets. Both Borrelia (the bacteria responsible for causing Lyme disease) and Bartonella are already recognised by DEFRA (Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs) as being endemic to the UK’s canine and feline population, with new bacterial strains being introduced to the UK following the introduction of the PET Passport Scheme.

Ticks can be found in well planted gardens, shrubberies, grassy edges, paddocks and hedgerows. In wooded areas, grasslands, meadows, even in buildings that support a large population of roosting birds or vermin for example, and of course on all manner of family pets, ticks will be found.

As far as human involvement is concerned, according to the Public Health Agency (now called the Health Protection Agency), England, 80% of laboratory confirmed incidences of Lyme disease in humans from 1997 to 2003 were acquired within the UK, with cases being reported from most counties in England and Wales. In Scotland Lyme disease is already endemic.

All in all then Lyme disease is not as rare as you suggest.

Tick bites are anoying, but not usually dangerous.

Borrelia, also known as 'the new great imitator', can resemble many well recognized conditions such as Glandular Fever (Epstein-Barr Virus), Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/ME, Multiple Sclerosis, Motor Neurone Disease/ALS, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, Lupus, Meningitis, depression, Bell's palsy, sleep disorder, psychiatric illness, ADHD, arthritis, rheumatism and many more. Symptoms can be widespread and intermittent.

It’s also documented that transmission of Borrelia through the placenta from mother to foetus is possible.

Whilst you may have been fortunate and not been affected following the bite of an infected tick, it has been demonstrated during an American vaccine trial that there is a human genetic pre-disposition to becoming infected with Lyme disease.

It was this same vaccine trial that then went on to demonstrate beyond any doubt that the current two-tier blood testing procedure, as employed by the NHS, was unreliable in detecting Borrelia in clinically confirmed cases. There is NO definitive test currently available for Lyme disease, not only in the UK but anywhere in the world, and yet many doctors frequently rely upon these tests to decide whether to diagnose Lyme, so many cases go undetected. The Health Protection Agency, whilst admitting to some 500 new cases per year, actually estimate that the figure is probably nearer to 2000. Dr. Ho-Yen of the Lyme reference Unit, Raigmore Hospital, Inverness goes even further and states that since 9 out of 10 people may never be diagnosed, and therefore not recorded, the figure is probably very much higher.

See: http://www.bada-uk.org/faq.html where it says: “Borrelia can change form and can be present in more than one form at a time, it is termed as being pleomorphic, which simply means that it is able to change its physical form. It can hide in parts of the human anatomy other than just blood. Borrelia is known to be found deep within tissues and tendons where blood circulation is poor and also within the brain, which has no immune defence system. Termed a ‘stealth pathogen', Borrelia is also known to hide within the immune system cells themselves using the cell membrane as a cloaking device, thus enabling it to evade the production of antibodies. The most common tests in the UK involve the need for antibodies to be present in blood samples. Without the presence of antibodies the test will come back negative.” Ticks bites can, therefore, be a little more than simply ‘annoying’.

If you have caught Lymes you will develop flu type symptoms

Many people who contract Lyme (not Lyme’s) disease do not develop flu-like symptoms, although it can be one warning indicator, as can excessive fatigue. It is known though that a person may remain totally asymptomatic (symptomless) for anything from weeks or months, to years following an infected bite. It is also recognised that a latent infection can be triggered following a later medical illness, physical injury, or even pregnancy, and when the immune system is under additional strain.

I suggest you get a new doctor, one who actually knows what anti-biotics are for. They are certainly not "for protection"

English Nature in conjunction with DEFRA state: “If a tick does attach, go to a doctor to have it removed, and to be prescribed preventive drugs (antibiotics) against Lyme disease". Currently there is no other treatment available and the earlier an infection is treated the better the chances of recovery.

So then perhaps a few weeks prophylactic antibiotic treatment is not such an uncalled for measure. After all, we all go for our vaccines, to prevent possible illness, and if there was a working vaccine for this illness I would be buying shares in the company, had I the money.

Until such times as the increasing tick population is addressed, the various infections they carry are only going to continue becoming more prevalent in not only our tick population, but our wildlife, domestic pets and us humans too. As such, a healthy awareness and avoidance of ticks is the best course of action, but failing that, the need for prophylactic antibiotic treatment will only become more and more sensible.

As I’ve said before I am a great lover of the outdoors and wildlife in general, and it certainly hasn’t stopped me going out there, BUT since contracting this illness I have a healthy respect for the potentially serious consequences of tick bites.

It’s strange how we humans are always able to appreciate the value of hindsight.

[ogwen]

Originally Posted by celiar

If you stress a tick by smothering it with butter, vaseline, whisky, surgical spirits or anything else, as you said it suffocates it. It will eventually drop off, but because it is being stressed it will first regurgitate the contents of it's gut, together with any infectious organisms it may be carrying, back into its host, whether that be human or animal. Its survival instinct, when under stress, is to make itself small in order to make its escape easier, and to do this it vomits the contents of its stomach. Believe me you do not want that going back into you or your pet! Trying to burn them off with a cigarette or something similar has the same effect.

We just bought a puppy (Cairn Terrier) from anglesy and on the way home we found it was covered in ticks with a particularily big one on her shoulder. After reading this I suggested we take it to the vets to be treated and they used that gadget. She also gave us some "frontline" for the ones she missed. Ughh, they are revolting! I have to say though, it wasn't the fault of the Kennels, after all Anglsey is sheep country and they have loads on them. She had a big one on her paw and am supprised she didn't try to bite it off.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by troutmask

I suggest you get a new doctor, one who actually knows what anti-biotics are for. They are certainly not "for protection" and using them in this way is why many anti biotics (penicillin in particular) don't work any more.
The chances of catching Lymes from a tick bite are remote. Penicillin dosn't work against Lymes. If you have caught Lymes you will develop flu type symptoms and should go to a doctor (not this one by the sound of it).
Tick bites are anoying, but not usually dangerous. make sure you remove them correctly, as described by a previous poster you need to grab them as close to the skin as possible and twist to release their barbs. If you squeeze or yank them out the bit that remains can go septic and get very painful (I have personal experience!). You might need an anti biotic in that case and if you have been taking them for protection then the bugs will be immune; natural selection soon sees to that (for the creationists amonst you, God comes along and makes a new bug that isn't harmed by the anti-biotic!)

Troutmask is correct about the need not to issue antibiotics willy nilly due to bugs building up resistance , however it is extremely unlikely that a doctor would issue them if he didnt think they were needed ( in my experience getting them at all for lymes disease precaution is like pulling teeth).

And the fact that we have at least three lymes disease suffers on this thread does tend to point o it being somewhat more wide spread than the "remote chance" aluded to above

[nightshade]

So what precautions do people recommend? what intregues me are the number
that have them in the crotch area (naturists?)
I wear leggings over my boots if walking through long grass and avoid fields where
sheep/animals have been

[eeyore]

I always wear gaiters in risk areas , and elastic cuffs on my jacket if going into high braken - if you can prevent them getting inside your clothes you wont have a problem as the prosboscis isnt powerful enough to puncture clothing.

The reason the go for the groin is that blood is close to the surface here - for the same reason other common sites are the backs of the knees , the front of the elbow and the base of the throat. - I also once had one behind my ear which bled like oooooooooo when it was removed.

[celiar]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Troutmask is correct about the need not to issue antibiotics willy nilly due to bugs building up resistance

Whilst there is currently concern about human antibiotic resistance with concern to MRSA and the like, GP’s are quite happy to prescribe them for juvenile acne for periods of up to two years in some cases.

The largest purchaser of antibiotics is in fact the meat manufacturing industry. The powers that be are far more interested in the profits of intensive farming methods than the nation's health. Factory chickens, veal calves, beef cattle, sheep and ewes, the list goes on, are all fed copious amounts in their daily food products, which we then ingest, thereby adding to our antibiotic resistance.

A short course of prophylactic antibiotic treatment is far better than long term untreated Lyme disease, which is a multi-systemic and potentially disabling condition. Everyone assumes that the medical profession are there to do the best for their patients. Only when you have Lyme disease do you realise, sitting as a patient, how meaningless the notion is.

[eeyore]

Dont get me wrong celiar - I agree with you about the need to take antibiotics are a precaution against lymes disease - My point was that troutmask is right in general about the need no to over subscribe antibiotics but that this does not apply to precautionary prescription for lymes disease and jeff h's doctor would not have prescribed them if they were not necessary.