Tick bites!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

The bug of Lyme Disease (Borrelia burghdor feri) is not particularly sensitive to Penicillin (aka Penicillin V), It is responsive to the common broad spectrum penicillin, amoxicillin, if given in highish dose early in the disease.

Okay, but to a layman there is no difference between penecillin v and broad spectrum penecillin, in fact many people use "penecilin" as a generic term for antibiotics generally.

Originally Posted by hobjob

I am sorry you are not correct - I'm sure google will confirm!
What I said was "The tick infects you by biting - it does not need to suck blood to infect you." I am 100% confident of this statement.

you may be 100% confident but in fact medical literature is split on the exact cause and route of infection as you said "We simply do not know for sure - the research has not been done." the fact remains that having a tick regurgiate another creatures blood into you cannot be a good thing and it is wise to avoid it if at all possible.

Originally Posted by hobjob

Not so - doctors are very well aware that Lyme disease is around and that the consequences of untreated lyme disease can be serious with nasty neurological disease a major risk.

this may have been true where you were working but it is not my experience or that of many other countryside workers

Originally Posted by hobjob

In fact GPs don't see loadsa people with hypochondriasis who want antibiotics - they see loadsa people with various symptoms, usually including fever, who believe themselves to be ill and wonder if they have a serious bacterial illness; this is to be expected when the media hypes up everything, and in the past every fever was treated by an anti-biotic.

Hypochondriasis is somewhat different, not especially common but we won't go there!

I am sorry but this is pure pedantry - it is perfectly clear that i was using the term "hypochondriac" in the common layman sense of the word to mean "someone who thinks they are ill when they arent" My best freind is a practice nurse and in the last week her surgery has seen 6 people convinced they have bird flu, three who thought they had west nile virus, and two who thought they had ebola. All were demanding antibiotics (despite the fact that they would have been pointless against any of these diseases) and none were actually ill.

Eeyore

(proffesional countryside warden for 12 years , often working in deer and sheep country, diagnosed with lymes disease twice, both confirmed by blood test and both cured vy broad spectrum penecillin)

[Mr Mag00]

'15 all'

[Hobjob]

Hi Eeyore,

I love a good debate, but others will get bored ;-)
I was going to reply off lilst, but you have misquoted me, so at the risk of boring others I am replying here.

No the medical literature is not divided on how the infection is spread - it is spread by saliva.

There is uncertainty about whether or not the infective load is increased (and by implication the illness more serious) when stomach contents are regurgitated into humans.

My comment: "We simply do not know for sure - the research has not been done" soley related to this uncertainty, not as you imply to whether or not infection occurs by saliva in biting. Such subtle and potentially misleading quoting is common in the mass media but should be avoided on forums like this.

I understand exactly why you feel that I was guilty of pedantry in discussing hypochondriasis - but a quick goodle (e.g http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic3122.htm , the first non advert choice) will show you that hypochondriasis is considered to be psychological illness. Many people, and I'm sure many reading this, seek the help of doctors and nurses when they feel unwell, especially if they have fever. I was trying to gently point out that being a bit dismissive and labelling them as hypochondriacs was being unkind (and inaccurate).

I suspect that the patients that your great friend the practice nurse has remarked upon will have had some symptoms, probably fever and aches and pains (and in the case of the ?bird flu, some snuffles, cough etc.) - why else would they think they have serious infections?

This means that they _were_ ill, were worried about it and sought help. OK they may not have been seriously ill, but to write them off as "none was actually ill" is unkind. Such feelings in health workers also makes it difficult to reassure and help those worried about their health understand how to handle minor infections on there own next time.

Dismissive attitudes are readily noticed by those who are feeling under the weather.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Hi Eeyore,

I understand exactly why you feel that I was guilty of pedantry in discussing hypochondriasis - but a quick goodle (e.g http://www.emedicine.com/MED/topic3122.htm , the first non advert choice) will show you that hypochondriasis is considered to be psychological illness. Many people, and I'm sure many reading this, seek the help of doctors and nurses when they feel unwell, especially if they have fever. I was trying to gently point out that being a bit dismissive and labelling them as hypochondriacs was being unkind (and inaccurate).

I suspect that the patients that your great friend the practice nurse has remarked upon will have had some symptoms, probably fever and aches and pains (and in the case of the ?bird flu, some snuffles, cough etc.) - why else would they think they have serious infections?

This means that they _were_ ill, were worried about it and sought help. OK they may not have been seriously ill, but to write them off as "none was actually ill" is unkind. Such feelings in health workers also makes it difficult to reassure and help those worried about their health understand how to handle minor infections on there own next time.

Dismissive attitudes are readily noticed by those who are feeling under the weather.

I am not unwise enough to argue with a doctor about what the medical lieterature says (or at least not without a great deal of research , which I dont have time for now) so on the route of infection I bow to your greater knowledge - for the moment .

However on the off topic bit the OED http://www.askoxford.com/results/?vi...archtype=exact defines a hypochondiac as "someone who worries abnormally about their health" which suggest that in normal usage the term is not soley limited to those suffering the physchological condition hypochondriasis.

IMHO someone who runs to the doctor with a cold - which most of us would shrug off and keep on going with, believing they have ebola, despite not having been to the congo river valley or other areas of infection - is worrying abnormally about there health and thus does meet the definition of hypochondriac.

btw there is no need to worry about boring the others, debates on WAB often go off topic, out into the wild blue yonder and back again

[catalaze]

What more could the good doctor say, Eeyore, to enlighten you? You aren't a doctor and yet, despite qualified advice, your traditional last word disregards the compassionate and well-informed information you have been given. I hope those who read your comment will go back and learn the facts of the situation.

Mocking anyone is cruel, but labelling a person with a name like hypochondriac could cause real and unnecessary suffering.

[nightshade]

The local news stated that walkers etc. around Bath should beware of an increase
in ticks due to the rise in numbers of deer (and foxes would their increase since the hunting ban have an effect?)

[Tinkerbell]

Good morning, littleb - I do hope your husband is on the mend.

Even the itching produced from a tick bite can be very annoying, but to develop other symptoms must have been alarming. It would appear that there are varying degrees of illness produced by these seemingly useless insects and more of us seem to be getting bitten.

To any one who has been bitten - ere on the side of caution and seek medical advice if you are worried.

Tink

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by catalaze

What more could the good doctor say, Eeyore, to enlighten you? You aren't a doctor and yet, despite qualified advice, your traditional last word disregards the compassionate and well-informed information you have been given. I hope those who read your comment will go back and learn the facts of the situation.

Mocking anyone is cruel, but labelling a person with a name like hypochondriac could cause real and unnecessary suffering.

I was very tempted to not dignify this with a reply - but since you seem determined to attack me in open forum I have reasonable cause to defind myself.

Firstly "my traditional last word" relates to one discussion i had witgh you in which 99% of the information (including that from vets and medics supported my point of view) its a little strange that you attack me for arguing with a doctor but are quite prepared to believe that your point of view on that thread is more likely to be correct than that of highly qualified veterinarians - i love consistency of logic

Secondly, this is a discussion forum , that is a place where people have discussions, despite your belief to the contrary I am not determined to have the last word, just to engage in debate which is one of the purposes of this board -and to paraphrase hob job both he and I love a good debate.

The facts of the situation are that hypochondriasis is as hobjob said a serious and rare serious condition, but as the OED demonstrates the term hypochondriac is used much more widely than its medical route. further i havent labled any specific person as a hypochondriac so serious and lasting harm is somewhat unlikely.

I'm not a doctor true , but i am someone with first hand experience both of contracting lymes disease and with the reluctance of some doctors to give antibiotics out - which reluctance is directly related to the unfounded demand that some patients make for antibiotics in a positions where they are neither needed or effective. Personally I find this demand to be irresponsible and I feel that I am entitled to express that postion here.

I dont mind if you or anyone else doesnt agree with me, I also dont particularly care whether you like me or not, but I would point out that the open forum is not the place to make personal attacks on other members. If you have a problem with me either make your point by pm or take it up with the mods

If my post was truly out of line I am sure that our excellent and hard working moderators would have said something, which they havent. nuff said.

[Turtletagger]

How surprised I am to hear that we have "ticks" here in Britain. I lived nearly fourty years living in Australia and ticks were a common hazard for bird watchers and campers. The most I discovered on my body after three days tramping and camping through the bush was the grand total of 156 seed ticks. One just dosen't know they are there till about the third day when they start to itch like mad. We called them the Kangaroo Tick because the poor old roos were covered with them, but also, the lizards that abound in that country, suffered badly with ticks in there ears and under the scales. After a hot shower, the first for three days, and with plenty of scrubbing many of the ticks fall of voluntarily, the rest have to be pulled out with tweezers, of corse there is always the ones who hang on and lose their heads and then you suffer for a couple of weeks with an angry sore at the spot. The worst places to find them are attached to your private parts or on your nipples and in your belly button: I Thank God I left that Country and could now enjoy bird watching in peace from the heat,flies and ticks. "Or so I thought till reading this thread"

[DL]

The Tick must be some way down the list of creatures you would leat like to encounter in Australia where as its probably top of the list in the UK