knee problem

[ChrisJB]

I was just wondering if anyone on here has experience of knee problems from hillwalking?
A few weeks ago I climbed Helvellyn, mostly without problems, save for the last couple of miles or so, when the back of my left knee, on the left hand side really started to hurt (a kind of burning pain, perhaps my tendon? I'm not good on anatomy!). Anyway, after a couple of days of everyday normal use, the pain gradually subsided. But since then, each time I do a hillwalk, a few miles in, the pain starts again in the same place and is much worse on ascents and descents.
As it isn't an injury as such, I am becoming a bit concerned about it. Someone said it might be a problem with my boots and they may have a point, as I tend to use footwear, that is perhaps too lightweight for walks up Helvellyn and Blencathra, two I have done recently.
Anyone any suggestions?

Regards, Chris

[Ian Gray]

hiya Chris. I can't offer a diagnosis, I'll leave that to the experts (the knee joint is a complicated bit of kit). I can only offer my sympathies, suffered for many years. Declines are the problem for me (and most I think). I use a strapping just below my kneecap, I find this helps alot, a simple bandage does me but you can spend more on supports specially made for the job. For me it's as important as a map and compass. Sorry I can't be of more help.


Ian

[naturelover]

Hi chris,sorry to hear about your knee,it need support,get yourself an elasticated bandage,there is also an elasicated tube that you pull over the affected area,i used to get knee trouble when ever i was pregnant,the extra weight and all that,so i started putting one on mine helped alot.

[Sparrowlegs]

Originally Posted by ChrisJB

I was just wondering if anyone on here has experience of knee problems from hillwalking?
A few weeks ago I climbed Helvellyn, mostly without problems, save for the last couple of miles or so, when the back of my left knee, on the left hand side really started to hurt (a kind of burning pain, perhaps my tendon? I'm not good on anatomy!). Anyway, after a couple of days of everyday normal use, the pain gradually subsided. But since then, each time I do a hillwalk, a few miles in, the pain starts again in the same place and is much worse on ascents and descents.
As it isn't an injury as such, I am becoming a bit concerned about it. Someone said it might be a problem with my boots and they may have a point, as I tend to use footwear, that is perhaps too lightweight for walks up Helvellyn and Blencathra, two I have done recently.
Anyone any suggestions?

Regards, Chris

I find that strapping or bandaging can only serve to restrict the blood flow. Perhaps you should use Poles (sticks, not the Countrymen) for the last half or so of your trek, especially downhill.

I strongly advise that you get some adequate boots Chris as they are designed to protect your ankles and will put far less strain on your legs as a whole. Ill fitting boots can cause a great deal of problems. Socks are also very important. I suggest you go and see a reputable walking boot supplier before you next venture onto the peaks.

If the injury persists then do go and see your local quack asap.

[Blackbrook Eye]

None of us are getting younger, take your time a bit.

[PMG]

Sorry to hear that Chris - as already said none of us are getting younger! Its probably a combination of things such as boots, socks and maybe the amount - ie sustained climbing or descent that your knee is complaining about?

Boots that fit snuggly and thick socks are a must for a lot of descent, if your toes are touching the fronts then you will automatically alter your step and gait to avoid this and your knee will take this strain.

You could try a specialist neoprene knee protector which gives support without restricting blood flow - other types of bandaging will restrict but might be worth it just for the descent.

I find two poles invaluable now for coming down (not that I go up anywhere much these days!!) but if I had or wanted to then I need the support of poles as both my ankles are weak and one is severely damaged from a road accident years ago.

Pauline

[witham]

Have you tried magnet therapy, you can get knee bands with magnets in and they are supposed to be very beneficial if you buy the correct ones, the cheapo versions are not much use as the magnets aren't strong enough, There are various websites that sell them, Norstar is a good one, they aren't cheap but if you're buying painkillers etc it can soon add up. You can get magnetic pads to put in your shoes which are also said to help, I suffer with shoulder pain and I use a different version and after a while the pain seems to go unless it's all in the mind you can even get dog collars etc for arthritic animals

[coasty]

I have had knee problems over the last few years. I would advise a visit to a Physio, problems like this need proper diagnosis or you may just do further harm, Pain is a warning signal so the use of bandages etc I think will probably do more harm in the long term.

I think you should visit your Doc and get a referral or recomendation in the meantime limit yourself to walks on the level,,,,,

[ChrisJB]

Thank you everyone for your advice. For a start, I think I need some sturdier boots for the kind of walks I do (I'm off into Manchester at weekend, round the outdoor shops). Regarding knee supports, I am rather sceptical of these, as many years ago (as a raw prawn 17 year old), I had a bit of cartilage bother when I walked the Coast to Coast and used them. I became too reliant on them and if anything, it weakened the joint and I had to wean myself off it.
As for not getting any younger, of course you are correct, but as I am only 35, I gain very little comfort from that! .
The pain is certainly a strange one, not like the usual cartilage type pain from steep descents. It feels like some kind of tendon/ligament trouble, which slightly extends into the top of my calf.
If rest and new boots don't help, the docs it shall be. To be exiled from the uplands is upsetting indeed.

Regards, Chris

[galanthus]

Mine's been doing the same thing for the last few months, it also crunches a little when I move it up and down stairs. I used to do a lot of cross-trainering before I ripped my calf muscle and the pain has only been there since the muscle injury recovered. I put it down to compensation by the knee for the injury. As pointed out if your footwear isn't sturdy enough maybe your knee joint is taking up the slack as it were. Hope gets better soon.

[coasty]

A few years ago I dislocated my knee and fractured my knee cap,,, months on crutches followed and surgery,, but I am getting stronger and I can once again wade deep in fast rivers , so dont despair,,,,( oh yes and I admit to over 50,,,,)

[Sparrowlegs]

Originally Posted by coasty

A few years ago I dislocated my knee and fractured my knee cap,,, months on crutches followed and surgery,, but I am getting stronger and I can once again wade deep in fast rivers , so dont despair,,,,( oh yes and I admit to over 50,,,,)

Oh! won't the fish be pleased!

[John D]

Hi Chris,
Wouldn't it not be better to have it checked out by a Doctor before going down the path of trying new boots etc????
If you have caused damage in anyway, better that it is put right before longer term damage sets in.
Just MHO.
John D

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by John D

Hi Chris,
Wouldn't it not be better to have it checked out by a Doctor before going down the path of trying new boots etc????
If you have caused damage in anyway, better that it is put right before longer term damage sets in.
Just MHO.
John D

You are probably right John, but even before this bother began, I decided that my boots weren't really up to the job. The knee trouble just pushed me in the right direction. If it continues, I will certainly visit ol' Crippen. The thought of not being able to climb hills makes me shudder, so I shall do whatever is necessary.
As a little aside, I went to one of the big outdoor shops (named after some hills down south) today and was very impressed with the boot fitting they gave me. I went with a particular pair of boots in mind, but discovered my feet are a bit on the wide side for them. The pair they did recommended, what a surprise, were out of stock in my size! Also, I showed them my current boots and told them some of the walks I have done in them recently, and they agreed, they are far too lightweight for the job.

Regards, Chris

[Kayleigh]

I got a dog so started walking about 1-2 hours a day. Then started to experience knee pain..The pain was only when I walked, at rest it was fine. It feels like the joint is twisting when I walk. The Doctor said there was nothing wrong with my knee I have flat feet and the foot turns inwards, the podiatry clinic said I have one leg longer than the other. I have to were corrective footware now..Your problem could be with your feet..I also get back problems due to my feet.. You could try a good chiropodist for a diagnosis.
Glucosamine helps as well

[ChrisJB]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

I got a dog so started walking about 1-2 hours a day. Then started to experience knee pain..The pain was only when I walked, at rest it was fine. It feels like the joint is twisting when I walk. The Doctor said there was nothing wrong with my knee I have flat feet and the foot turns inwards, the podiatry clinic said I have one leg longer than the other. I have to were corrective footware now..Your problem could be with your feet..I also get back problems due to my feet.. You could try a good chiropodist for a diagnosis.
Glucosamine helps as well

All interesting stuff this foot/knee business. I'm learning so much from the good folks on here and the assistants in the shop yesterday. The lass in the shop informed me my arches were in good nick. Surely a cause for minor celebration I'd say!

Regards, Chris

[galanthus]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

I got a dog so started walking about 1-2 hours a day. Then started to experience knee pain..The pain was only when I walked, at rest it was fine. It feels like the joint is twisting when I walk. The Doctor said there was nothing wrong with my knee I have flat feet and the foot turns inwards, the podiatry clinic said I have one leg longer than the other. I have to were corrective footware now..Your problem could be with your feet..I also get back problems due to my feet.. You could try a good chiropodist for a diagnosis.
Glucosamine helps as well

Same happened to other half. Really poorly back, went to chiropractor, turns out he had flat feet and one leg slightly longer, had to wear specially made insoles in shoes. Back is great now.

[ron1863]

Originally Posted by galanthus

Mine's been doing the same thing for the last few months, it also crunches a little when I move it up and down stairs. I used to do a lot of cross-trainering before I ripped my calf muscle and the pain has only been there since the muscle injury recovered. I put it down to compensation by the knee for the injury. As pointed out if your footwear isn't sturdy enough maybe your knee joint is taking up the slack as it were. Hope gets better soon.

That crunching sounds like cartilage trouble, which I had diagnosed when in my teens. With me it could come on for a few hours or a few days then go away for weeks or months. Happily I have been pain free for a few years now but it could come back.

[aci20]

Chris, I half-suspect I know what the injury is (from the mention of it radiating to the calf), but I would need a better description of the site of the pain. Initially I read your first post as indicating pain in the tendon at the back of the knee (searches web.....), the biceps femoris, but I'm wondering if it's the ilio-tibial band on the lateral side of the knee (the outside), in which case you might have a dose of ITBS.

Irrespective of what it is, don't use a knee support (unless told to do so by an expert, for reasons you appreciate already) or magnets (for reasons of being laughed at by me in the street). And go and see a physio, podiatrist or chiropractor with a speciality in exercise. You won't regret it.

[outdoors]

hy chris,i've been on the hill's for about 15 years,i done a big ridge walk one day walked about 30 miles, the next day i was crippled with pain,i went to my gp and he said it would go away it's self it never did,i've been struggling for at least 7 years.i had an opperation on my knee a few months ago but i'm still sore.. i'm dying to back on the hills but i dont know when i will be able too.. heres hoping and praying.. cheers garry..

[ChrisJB]

Garry, your reply has really scared me! That sounds horrendous and I really hope I don't suffer a similar fate. I hope you get yourself sorted out and have my sincere sympathy.

Aci20, thanks for that. I think you could have hit the nail on the head. The symptoms and location on the outside of the knee and calf fits perfectly. The bit I was pleased to read is that it can take up to 6 months to clear up, ie it isn't permanent! I am off for a couple of walks in the Yorkshire Dales next week and any problems and I am going straight to the doctors when I get home.

Regards, Chris

[Emma S]

While reading this, I was wondering about whether visiting a sports physiotherapist could help (possibly after you've seen a gp). There must be sports physios who have knowledge/interest in the effects of outdoor activities like walking?

[outdoors]

Originally Posted by Emma S

While reading this, I was wondering about whether visiting a sports physiotherapist could help (possibly after you've seen a gp). There must be sports physios who have knowledge/interest in the effects of outdoor activities like walking?

emma ,i spent over 500 hundred pounds on all kind of physio's at 20 pounds for quater of an hour.. i've been to everybody .. beleife me...

[ChrisJB]

From Aci's info' I have been trolling through hundreds of websites on ITBS today and I am fairly sure this is what I have been suffering. It seems there are various causes ranging from unsuitable footwear to not stretching before exercise. It seems commonest in endurance or long distance runners, but even though I am a hill walker, I do bomb up them as quick as I can (I think my wife is glad I am suffering as she always moans I go too fast!).
Like I said earlier, I am in the Yorkshire Dales walking for a couple of days this week and I am equipped with much better footwear, so I shall see how it goes. If I am still suffering I'm going to the doctors and hopefully find out some decent stretching and strengthening exercises.
It seems the condition stems from tightening of a tendon like structure that runs from the hip muscle, along the outer thigh muscle, to the top of the calf. I found some stretches on various websites, but they just sound too complicated.
WABbers never cease to amaze me with their knowledge and help.

Regards, Chris

[MrToad]

Hi Chris,

I have an old cycling knee injury, i think its my cartlidge.

I usually carry a good knee support in my back pack and some strong pain killers to get me back to the car.

It tends to be a problem on the downhill part, same as yours.

I have also used an infra-red lamp on it that encourages blood flow around the area and has made it better on a number of occasions.

But in the end it may be a job for the physio.

Hope you get it sorted.

Mike