Walkers beware

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by CurreHound

I can't understand why this would surprise anyone.
One of the most stupid things I ever heard, and just another symptom of the Disneyfication of animals over the last forty or so years, was in the movie "Jurassic park".
The kids and Sam Neil are asleep in a tree when a large herbivore dinosaur approaches.
"He says something like
"don't worry...it's a veggiesaurus" as though herbivores are not dangerous.

I have encountered big cats and wolves in the wild. On all occasions, they have moved away. I believe partly because our upright stance is seen as dangerous: they don't quite get it. Think of other animals that stand in this way: gorillas, or a bear, often when in threatening mode. These animals are also herbivore or omnivore btw. So I think predators can be nervous of us. There are many other reasons of course but that is one not thought of.

Now herbivores are often herd animals. Certainly in the case of cattle, and especially horses.
when you get close to such animals in the countryside it is wise to keep your distance. You may be surprised to know that cows are often at the top the list of traumatic injury and death in the UK to humans.

When herd animals are threatened, they can employ a variety of tactics to deal with the threat. Stampeding, coralling etc can have very grave consequences if you are caught in the middle of them. They literally put themselves so closely together they can crush you between them or against something.
In addition, cattle and horses have an impressive armoury of weapons designed to defend them from large predators ; when employed against puny humans, even in curiosity or play, they can be deadly.
The simple truth is it was completely irresponsible for the government to open up areas of the countryside to walkers without warning them of the dangers presented by cattle horses, and even sheep.
We have a pet lamb and it just put someone in hospital with a severely injured back because it leapt at him in the field. Don't laugh....I know it sounds like the rabbit in Monty Python or something but it was no laughing matter for the victim who know has a severe back problem. It has also caused a kid from a nearby housing estate to have stitches and a shot for tetanus because it was none too keen on playing with him. the lamb is actually 18 months old and being bottle fed and welsh, is quite a burly little madam. The golden Lab on the farm regularly gives up on play with it because she is too rough.

Then there is our horse. It is a retired top class racehorse which was renowned for its temperament rather than its achievements. In on race, he and another horse bit chunks out of each other in their race to "lead the herd".
Now my girlfriend and I and the people who are used to horses know and respect him and all other thoroughbreds. They approach with correct body language and caution. Now when people s him in the afternoon who may be out on a walk, he would look a very peaceable creature grazing with the two year old little pony who is his companion. he is not. If he doesn't know you, if you are not in his herd (as we are) he will attack you. You will be assaulted by an animal that can travel at 40mph with its ears flat back to its head and when on you he will either reel round and give you two barrels of oblivion from his rear hoofs, or rear up on you and strike that way. If you go down, he will then stamp on you.
even if he doesn't see you as a threat, he will almost certainly deliver you a crushing bite if you approach his head or neck. That is only for herd members or those who know how to approach horses. Whiffling is okay for us but not for you.

Now you see we have problems don't we? Because if we put a sign on the gate saying "this animal is dangerous" then anyone attacked can say "they knew it was dangerous...it should have been destroyed". BUT if we put no sign up, we can say.."Well he has never done anything like that before...its a mystery".
It is a nightmare for every owner of a hot blooded horse.

It frightens us to death when we see the bobble hats and rucksacks crossing the field which these ramblers mistakenly believe they are now allowed to walk through.

See what they don't realise, is that it isn't a question of right to roam and farmers land. BECAUSE MY HORSE DOESN'T CARE TOO MUCH FOR HUMAN LEGAL CONCERNS. HE KNOWS THE FIELD IS HIS AND IF HE DOESN'T WANT YOU IN IT: YOU HAVE PROBLEMS.
I have tried to talk to him about being nice to people and respecting their right to roam but he doesn't get it sorry.

It can be the same with cattle.

Please...respect animals like this because they are not as cute as they look: serene looking herbivore herd animals can be killing machines. If you saw horses when they are first turned out (not that many of you are up that early!) you would see what they are capable of as they enjoy the full abilities of their bodies. NEVER understimate any animal.

Erm, i agree with some of what you say but this sounds a bit like scaremongering to me and somebody who doesn't like walkers on their land? Correct me if i'm wrong.
I have nearly been killed by a horse in it's stable who was a nasty piece of work but some animals are just plain clumsy. People being seriously hurt by animals is still pretty rare isn't it? But land owners have to face up to their responsibilities and protect the public.

[Dan Salter]

Bizarrely i have heard of two recent cow related injuries putting both farmers in hospital...and was also talking to a reserve manager who nearly got seriously trampled by his bull last year.

I also only recently learned that Friesan bulls are notoriously aggressive and nasty.
Like others have said...any animal should be treated as unpredictable and given respect...use your common sense. Yes....even those gorgous lovable family pet dogs that wouldnt hurt a fly...wouldnt hurt anyone until... " We were so shocked when she turned on the baby and ripped her face to pieces"...yep...i love dogs.

After 2 terrifying rhino stampedes and other animal related situations on my travels i have learnt to be wary and have respect. Incidentally the otherwise beautiful himalayan Yaks are responsible for more accidents and deaths on the trekking paths than anything else. I had more than a few hairy moments with them on the scarily thin mountainside paths on my 2 everest treks...and several heart in mouth moments with mountain goats too...you soon learn if you are fighting for the path with a yak you get on the "up mountain" side of it as soon as you can otherwise they will just flip you off the mountain..and quite rightly too...they have been there a lot longer than us stupid foreign tourists.

Originally Posted by naturelover

thing is if your dog attacks the cows the farmer has the right to shoot it,cant we shoot the cows if they attack us,no of course we cant,bit one sided then isnt it.

This is a rediculous argument..im going to leave it there rather than unleash the beast.

[svenrufus]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

It's horses that worry me - they will actually attack rather than just crushing you accidentally.

I'm with you there Paul, Horses scare the pants off me. Too big, way too big, and those feet

As for cows (the story that started this thread was reported in my lolca paper under the headline " Cow-ardly Attack" Boom Boom!) I have had only one moment when I was genuinely scared, but not by the beasts themselves who were in their usual dopey nosey form. No, it was the fact that the ringleader in the thronging masses around me had something in his nose, I don't know the name, but it was like something out of Hellraiser - a metal plate with spikes sticking out of it. I've been told it is to stop it going to the mother and trying to suckle - no mother would want that thing poking in her udder so I can see how it works. However, when your way out is blocked by all his mates, and Devil Cow is sporting with you, coming within inches of me, I was getting seriously worried. Had to resort to extreme measures to create the space for me to run away (in a noble and dignified manner) by slapping one on the side with my folder. Unfortunately the farmer had been watching me from his kithcen with binoculars and sent two burly sons out on quad bikes to give me a piece of their mind (which I'm not sure they could spare). Maybe it was wrong, but at the time it seemed right.

Chickens also worry me, but that's another story...

[CurreHound]

thankyou for your comments and welcome.
I am nor scarmongring. honest.
And unless I sit in th field with my horse 24 hours a day how can I protct the public? The only solution is to kep them out.
unlss thy are used to horss. And thn, thy will know to keep out if he is with his little pony.

What we get is people wandering in the field and saying "...aww look at the mare and foal" with kids with them! Then they get all funny when you try to ask them to stay away as its dangerous. Mind you I had to laugh when he grabbed some stroppy dad who stood his ground by the trousers and pulled them down! The kids had already run and jumped out of the field.

he was terrified, and I escorted him out. In fact, I bought him a drink at the local pub and asked the family to come and see him in an hour when he was stabled. He still didn't like the dad but he took polos from the kids as they were less bullish in their stance and more eager to learn how to do it.

So no....it isn't a question of "keep arf my land". That is a lie pepetrated by political forces in this country determined to profit by the politics of envy.

NO farmer or countyman, would ever regard land as his. He would see his position as custodian. I knew one farmer personally who committed suicide when debt forced him to sell then he found out that devlopers had bought the land sneakily with planning approval for a huge development.

I do not own the land and am not a farmer. We just rehabilitate racehorses when we can because we love them We make no profit and ask for no money from anyone. And they are just for us to ride. Anyone who wants to come and visit our famous one can because his fans are legion. Lots of taxi drivers come to see him regularly for some reason. They are welcome as long as they ask permission....and that is just for safety and security.

The land is habitat for the following:

two species of owl
3 species of bats
three species of newt
kingfisher
heron
buzzard (including a completly white one)
Ravens
badgrs
fox
various lizards
over twenty species of butterly

and many many more

So if you begrudge a farmer having those fields a watcourse some wood exclusively for horses and sheep then what I am afraid of is that it becomes an IKEA and Virgin cinema; or a field full of that rape muck.

And that means bye by to all those animals. I have seen it time and time again. Land bought under compulsor purchase developed, and habitatdestroyd by socialists working with corporations.

And to encourage people to think they can traipse all over it without respect for whats here is irresponsible and part of that politics of envy.

a teacher firnd of ours once asked ifwe had had our horse since it was a pony. W cannot have people like this or those that they educate anywhere near them. That is all people in the country ask. Learn a little first, have som respect for the animals both wild and domestic, and to try to understand traditional methods of managment. Because that is what keeps both the bio diversity and the domestic stock side by side in harmony.

And just talk. In the country people say "good morning". So someone who come along scowling and with attitude or silent is a worry sometimes. A smile and a greeting and passing the time of day commenting on the beauty of the land around can make a farmer very proud and friendly. And then he may show you some things you would never know were there.
My friend has stoat on his gallops for example. They are fab in winter and again...be very careful if you encounter stoat. You know all those old wives tales about rats jumping at your head? Well...they weren't rats. Stoat do that. Be especially careful if camping near stoat. In fact...don't. Most farmers like stoat because they help keep rabbits down. But they are very dangerous.

you won't ever catch me in a field of cattle btw. I have seen people crushed that are used to them

Horses? Yes they are very dangerous BUT if you know what you are doing they are marvellous friends. The best.
Humans owe so much to horses.

[KIDSTYPIKE]

I can only write from personal experience which covers 30+ years of walking. The only times that we were ever bothered with cattle was when we had the dog with us and usually by bullocks with there natural curiousity.

Dave

[coasty]

I have been walking through fields with cattle and horses in for many years . I agree that horses are the most unpredictable. However as stated cattle in all forms can be real trouble, however I would say if you exercise common sense and are aware of the hazards then you should not be in danger.

The problem as I see it is people who are from towns cities and simply dont understand the many situations that can arise in the countryside with farm animals. Lets be honest if you stick to public footpaths farmers and landowners largely do not want their animals stressed out so only put suitably placid animals in such areas. I accept there are exceptions to this,.

This is similer to the situation I have seen over the years on the coast, I have helped many people of the rocks when in danger of been cut of by the tide, as they didnt know what the tides did, Also we have seen many tragedies of children drowning when dodging waves. In times when there are storms running .These instances have always been visitors from inland who do not understand the potential dangers. These events are allways followed by demands from outraged and obviousley greaving families to say that the steps and slipways should be fenced more secureley ignoring that the danger signs were there,,,

[CurreHound]

That is a good analogy you ake to the people who get in trouble with the tides etc.

Horses are pretty predictable actually though. Go in my horses field and he will attack if he doesn't know you. One darn't go behind him in summer unless ready for the fact he is likely to let you have a leg because th flies are bothering him. Just frustration with flies can cause such behaviour. He does bite. Doesn't get near enough to me to bite because I am prepared that sometimes he will. He often is just being exploring with his mouth and gets carried away. So I guess it is like a coastguard who knows the tides.
Cattle seem more unpredictable to me and are very dangerous when alarmed.
I think some years over a hundred people are killed by cattle. But they may seem unprdictable to me beecause I do not know much about them compared with horses. So I treat them with respect and keep my distance.

now even if you know what you are doing, it is still a worry to the farmer if he sees people crossing a field with animals. Poachers? kids set to tease? People who will approach because they think the lil foal cute? (Yearlings can be very dangerous) Weirdos mutilating them? So you can see why farmers get nervous. Always best to ask. They will only say no for a reason.
It is like seeing people in your garden. You may not be the meanie who dosn't give the ball back but you may have other concerns about kids say being in there...just planted, birds nesting, deep pond or dangerous wall. But the kid just thinks you are mean when you shout at him. Knock the door ask for the ball back, and you may get a lemonade and shown the frogs in the pond. That is how it always used to work.

[ron1863]

On a lighter note.

My mate was badly injured drinking milk. The cow fell on him.

AH, the oldies are the best.

[coasty]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Erm, i agree with some of what you say but this sounds a bit like scaremongering to me and somebody who doesn't like walkers on their land? Correct me if i'm wrong.
I have nearly been killed by a horse in it's stable who was a nasty piece of work but some animals are just plain clumsy. People being seriously hurt by animals is still pretty rare isn't it? But land owners have to face up to their responsibilities and protect the public.

I really do beleive that the overwhelming majority of landowners take their responsibilities very seriousley, The problem is that the vast majority of the public dont even know what their responsibilities are never mind take them seriousley,

We live in a nanny state with a mentality that progressively is removing peoples responsibilities. Why shouldnt people learn the rules and ways of the countryside before going there, and why should they expect to be protected from the dangers that are there.

[mh68]

This thread has reminded me of something that happened a good few years ago. I was fishing in SW Scotland on one of the lochs,standing by the water with a brew looking out over the Loch.As I turned round I got the shock of my life, as a few feet behind me stood a bloke with his jacket ripped to shreds and he was bleeding,I didnt even hear him approach.He was in a fair old state , but after a while he calmed down and it transpired that a herd of cows had stampeded towards him at such speed, he had no choice but to throw himself over a barbed wire fence....injuring himself and ripping his clothes to shreds in the process.The point being, he shouldnt have been in that field when the cows were present.We knew the farmer who owned the surrounding land,and he wouldnt allow anyone to cross his fields when the cows were present for the risk of them doing exactly what they did to the afore mentioned bloke.He had no problem with us using his field as a shortcut as long as it was empty.The above is what happens when people just do as they please without asking permission.

Mark H