Flooding - County on its knees

[Lance Morgan]

It never ceases to amaze me how a bit of adverse weather such as a few days heavy rainfall or snow brings this country to a grinding halt.
Take lincolnshire where I live. Severe weather warnings, accidents on the roads, schools shut, people can't get to work, rivers burst their banks, homes flooded, emergency services struggling to cope.
Every time its the same - Why?

[glsammy]

Yep, where I Live, I'm surrounded by low lying villages, all of which are flooded, and worse is expected. We can't get out to our usual places, without massive detours. This happens around here every 10 years or so, this year is particularly bad.
It's our unpredictable weather; how can the councils expect to cope, after all it's never rained in June before. To be fair, the rainfall has been extremely severe and continuous. Any system will struggle to cope with the volume that has fallen here recently. Apparently we've just had the worse days rainfall in 50 years, with plenty more to come.

[Lance Morgan]

Yes I appreciate that some low lying areas will be particularly vulnerable but this seems to be an more and more of an annual event everytime we get a bit of 'weather'.
Why don't local councils plan for this and what about the Environment Agency, they seem to spend millions on new anti flood schemes which don't appear to improve anything. They're very good at flood warnings though.

Is it because old Flood meadows are drained and or developed for housing? The drains around us are never cleaned out and are blocked. Rivers are swollen because of weirs which are permanently closed. Banks are neglected and damaged and then burst.
Anyway it seems that the forecast is for more of the same. Batten down the hatches lads.

[Tormentil]

Look on the brightside. Ark building is booming.

[Kymba]

Give it a week of brilliant sunshine and hot weather and they will be telling us we have a water shortage and a Hosepipe ban!!!

[demicav]

Originally Posted by Lance Morgan

It never ceases to amaze me how a bit of adverse weather such as a few days heavy rainfall or snow brings this country to a grinding halt.
Take lincolnshire where I live. Severe weather warnings, accidents on the roads, schools shut, people can't get to work, rivers burst their banks, homes flooded, emergency services struggling to cope.
Every time its the same - Why?

I do sometimes wonder this myself. The country seems unable to cope in the most extreme weather. In between is ok but very hot or very wet is a no no .

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by Lance Morgan

It never ceases to amaze me how a bit of adverse weather such as a few days heavy rainfall or snow brings this country to a grinding halt.

Compared to which other Country ?

Extreme conditions are only manageable if systems are designed and built to manage them, this would mean for instance that storm drains would have to be built two, three or four times as large as would be required for the normal range of rainfall. To build that higher level of infrastructure would incur massive financial and environmental costs, so storm drains are built to cope with a 'normal' range and not an exceptional range.

Climate change will alter what those ranges are, if warming continues then the frequency of extreme events will increase, whether as a society we will choose to enhance infrastructure or simply meet the costs of 'mopping up' is a political question because it is linked to what levels of taxation we are prepared to accept. However I'm not certain that any other Country with comparable problems is actually doing any better than the UK. And building on flood plains, canalising rivers and degrading water stores is a global problem.

CM

[Lance Morgan]

Certainly not compared to third world countries where sadly we most often see disasters caused by flooding. I have not seen reports of comparible flooding in the rest of Europe today. I/we pay enough in taxes. If this is the taste of things to come then maybe the infrastructure should be improved and built to prevent the sort damage we're seeing. This is going to cost us all one way or another clean up and repair and insurance premiums are going to sky rocket. It must be costing millions of pounds.

Just watched the news and now they're airlifting people from buildings with sea kings. Two people have lost their lives, one trying to unblock a drain. All for a few days rain. What next?

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Cotham Marble

Compared to which other Country ?

Extreme conditions are only manageable if systems are designed and built to manage them, this would mean for instance that storm drains would have to be built two, three or four times as large as would be required for the normal range of rainfall. To build that higher level of infrastructure would incur massive financial and environmental costs, so storm drains are built to cope with a 'normal' range and not an exceptional range.

Climate change will alter what those ranges are, if warming continues then the frequency of extreme events will increase, whether as a society we will choose to enhance infrastructure or simply meet the costs of 'mopping up' is a political question because it is linked to what levels of taxation we are prepared to accept. However I'm not certain that any other Country with comparable problems is actually doing any better than the UK. And building on flood plains, canalising rivers and degrading water stores is a global problem.

CM

thats probably true of rain - but look at the way the country grinds to a halt when theres a couple of inches of snow - canada and northern usa , and scandanavia , russia etc regularly get far more than that and cope without the mass hysteria which grips our road network everytime theres more than a few flakes

[Kymba]

Did you see the news tonight.. I was Gob smacked.. The news presenter was on a bridge going over a motorway in Yorkshire... The water on the motorway was above the car wheels and people were still trying to drive!!!
Have they No sense at all....then they will complain because their cars are wrecked and ruined!!! or they get stuck and stranded!!

[Trent900]

Originally Posted by Lance Morgan

Is it because old Flood meadows are drained and or developed for housing?

This the main problem I think. Why do developers build on such land. Because its cheap? The flood plains are there for a reason and unfortunatly quite a few people have found out the hard way.

I beg to question are insurance companies going to clamp down on this from now on?

D.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by Trent900

This the main problem I think. Why do developers build on such land. Because its cheap? The flood plains are there for a reason and unfortunatly quite a few people have found out the hard way.

I beg to question are insurance companies going to clamp down on this from now on?

D.

The insurance company's will not insure if there is any risk of floods or if there have been floods there before. Unfortunately for a lot of the people affected they were not insured.

They are planning nearly 4.000 new houses in Towcester. There was water bubbling out of the ground on the farmland earmarked for the development where do you think this water will end up when there are houses on it. luckily I live on a hill..

[harasseddad]

Originally Posted by eeyore

thats probably true of rain - but look at the way the country grinds to a halt when theres a couple of inches of snow - canada and northern usa , and scandanavia , russia etc regularly get far more than that and cope without the mass hysteria which grips our road network everytime theres more than a few flakes

But that's cos they get it every year and so plan for it. Every motorist puts the snow chains on in september for example - how many UK motorists even own a set of snow chains? Round here snow appears to have disappeared - in the 80's I always had an emergency box of supplies under the stairs for when we got snowed in (candles, torch, batteries,dried milk etc)- which happened every three or four years. But now we never get more than an inch, and that only for a couple of days. So I no longer have the box - if it suddenly blows a blizzard I'll be stuck - but present day climate means it's too unlikely to worry about.

[demicav]

Originally Posted by harasseddad

But that's cos they get it every year and so plan for it. Every motorist puts the snow chains on in september for example - how many UK motorists even own a set of snow chains? Round here snow appears to have disappeared - in the 80's I always had an emergency box of supplies under the stairs for when we got snowed in (candles, torch, batteries,dried milk etc)- which happened every three or four years. But now we never get more than an inch, and that only for a couple of days. So I no longer have the box - if it suddenly blows a blizzard I'll be stuck - but present day climate means it's too unlikely to worry about.

Yes I agree, other countries certainly seem to be more prepared because they have a general idea of what is coming. I remember as a child getting thick snow every Winter and my parents had it so cold the local lodge had ice skaters on it for many weeks. Oh how times have changed.

[Paul mabbott]

You've got the point there - flood meadows are drained, high land is drained, gardens are concreted over, roads are bigger, houses and superstores are built on flood plains. There's no way that 'nature' can cope with heavy rainfall .
People have been saying for years not to build on flood plains but does anyone take any notice?

Originally Posted by Lance Morgan

Yes I appreciate that some low lying areas will be particularly vulnerable but this seems to be an more and more of an annual event everytime we get a bit of 'weather'.
Why don't local councils plan for this and what about the Environment Agency, they seem to spend millions on new anti flood schemes which don't appear to improve anything. They're very good at flood warnings though.

Is it because old Flood meadows are drained and or developed for housing? The drains around us are never cleaned out and are blocked. Rivers are swollen because of weirs which are permanently closed. Banks are neglected and damaged and then burst.
Anyway it seems that the forecast is for more of the same. Batten down the hatches lads.

[Paul mabbott]

Yes, although most central Europeans manage without snow-chains &c - driving in snow is a skill that British drivers don't have (and aren't likely to get!). In a very snowy winter (many years ago....), I used to get lifts home from a Czech who had absolutely no problem driving alongs streets littered by cars abandoned or crashed by British drivers!

Originally Posted by harasseddad

But that's cos they get it every year and so plan for it. Every motorist puts the snow chains on in september for example - how many UK motorists even own a set of snow chains? Round here snow appears to have disappeared - in the 80's I always had an emergency box of supplies under the stairs for when we got snowed in (candles, torch, batteries,dried milk etc)- which happened every three or four years. But now we never get more than an inch, and that only for a couple of days. So I no longer have the box - if it suddenly blows a blizzard I'll be stuck - but present day climate means it's too unlikely to worry about.

[Garden Carpet]

I seem to recall there being severe flooding in parts of Europe last year or the year before...Austria and Germany being affected in the main. If those highly organised countries cant get it right what chance Britain!

What we have to remember is that this weather is exceptional and we cant prepare for such without incurring major costs. Would that be acceptable... no... because we would then complain that OUR money was being wasted.

Many of the problems we have today are caused by man himself, so called flood measures put in place in the past create the very problem they were supposed to deal with... altering river channels, creating narrowing by banking with concrete, changes in land use and drainage etc... all these contribute to the flooding when exceptional weather occurs. Asking nature to conform to man's requirements is like trying to turn back the tides.... useless!!!

We spend a lot of time worrying that the water is going to run out, be grateful that it is rain and not parching sun we are suffering at the moment...

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by Garden Carpet

Many of the problems we have today are caused by man himself, so called flood measures put in place in the past create the very problem they were supposed to deal with... altering river channels, creating narrowing by banking with concrete, changes in land use and drainage etc... all these contribute to the flooding when exceptional weather occurs. Asking nature to conform to man's requirements is like trying to turn back the tides.... useless!!!

...

Well said - people talk about bigger storm drains &c but the storm drains empty into the rivers and it's the rivers that are flooding! The only way to deal with it is to keep the flood plains clear of human activity and keep our uplands natural (to absorb much of the water).

[Kayleigh]

Last year when we had heavy snow I went work (I am a care worker for the elderly) in my old (25+yrs) series 3 land rover. When I reached my fist call there was a man just got into his car. His wheels were just spinning round and he was sliding into the road. I in my 4x4 just went past him smiling. I had to do extra calls that day as the cars couldn't get to work. 4x4s come in very handy in extreme weather. A lot of our clients rely on us carers, we are like a life line to them.

[epops]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

Last year when we had heavy snow I went work (I am a care worker for the elderly) in my old (25+yrs) series 3 land rover. When I reached my fist call there was a man just got into his car. His wheels were just spinning round and he was sliding into the road. I in my 4x4 just went past him smiling. I had to do extra calls that day as the cars couldn't get to work. 4x4s come in very handy in extreme weather. A lot of our clients rely on us carers, we are like a life line to them.

i had a simlar experience people trying to get up a hill not far from where i live even a police car was stuck i just put my old 4x4 into play and sail up past them a little further up the road a boy racer wizzed passed about a mile later there he was in the hedge standing buy his car looking well p***ed off as i went past smiling to myself.

[Kayleigh]

Originally Posted by epops

i had a simlar experience people trying to get up a hill not far from where i live even a police car was stuck i just put my old 4x4 into play and sail up past them a little further up the road a boy racer wizzed passed about a mile later there he was in the hedge standing buy his car looking well p***ed off as i went past smiling to myself.

They are fun to drive as well. I love mine.

[epops]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

They are fun to drive as well. I love mine.

i love mine to but its not really a proper one its an old frontera lol

[Hoppingmad]

Originally Posted by Lance Morgan

It never ceases to amaze me how a bit of adverse weather such as a few days heavy rainfall or snow brings this country to a grinding halt.
Take lincolnshire where I live. Severe weather warnings, accidents on the roads, schools shut, people can't get to work, rivers burst their banks, homes flooded, emergency services struggling to cope.
Every time its the same - Why?

Yes indeed - why? So glad that others feel the same. At a youthful 44 have been worrying I am turning into a GRUMPY but see that there are others that feel the same as me - what a relief!

I live in Essex which let's face it is flat - but everytime there is the slightest sprinkle of snow on the ground - chaos! So frustrating. I have not got a 4 x 4 I have an elderly KA but I manage. I just get up a bit earlier to avoid the traffic and drive steadily. No problem. But surprising how many can't seem to manage this. There are 34 people where I work and on the one and only snowy day this year 6 of us managed to make it to work. PATHETIC!