Scottish wilderness reserve

[deer boy]

Cheers Richard watching it now

[StA.Squirrel]

Hi, I just found this website when i was looking for more information on the rewilding scheme, having just come accross a mention of it. I thin its a great idea, im all for reintroducing the species that have been hunted out over past centuries

[quote=Dan Salter;268091]

Originally Posted by kent marshman

Just walking away and leaving it to nature is exactly the idea behind it!...Im not even happy about him "planting" trees, the idea is to let succession takes its natural course and the trees will come back in good time once the predators (wolves etc) keep the deer numbers down which graze or browse any regrowth before it has chance to establish

Planting tree might be appropriate in some areas though, many areas of former woodland have little or no old trees to act as a seed source (dont know about on this estate specifically, I didnt see the program). Given the limited dispersal distance spread could be extremely slow, especially if there is unsuitable habitat in between (such as bog) and even where there are old trees present, the species balance might be quite different from what was there before if one species has been preferentially browsed by deer or deliberatly planted in the past - in which case planting of these speceis is analogous to putting the animals back. or introdcing species to an area to increase biodiversity.
...but then it depends on what exactly you are trying to do with 'rewilding'...whether you are trying to recreate something based on the past or or create the habitat that would have been there *now* had there been no human interferance, or not.

[stripee]

Originally Posted by kent marshman

hi all , ive been on alladale estate many times over the past 10 yrs and been involved with deer and wildlife management all over scotland and england, i went to the first meeting mr lister had with local people and estate owners , this only came about because a national paper leaked what he wanted to do, this upset the locals because it was the first they new about it. the program was a bit one sided and didnt voice all the concerns made by the locals such as the increase in traffic, its about as remote as it gets with only a single track road with passing places, there is also concerns about the construction of roads and fences which can course silt to wash into the river and damage the salmon spawning grounds. its a fantastic idear of mr lister but i think he wants to see it all happen in his life time but as we all know it takes hundreds of years to put rigth what man has done. you have to learn to walk before you can run.

Overall Paul Lister has a very interesting project. Just a couple of points though. He is considering introducing rhino and large cats and bears. How will the wildlife already there on this estate cope with this mix of top predators? Some of these animals will need supplementary feeding. I suppose this is all being thought about? It is a mix of safari park, theme park and re-wilded wilderness, I think it is a little bit of an odd mix I would have preferred if he had stuck to species indigenous to the British Isles.
Although PL has a lot of energy and good ideas, I do wonder if he is behaving somewhat like a "laird" of old. Do the people of Ardgay want this? All about jobs and regeneration but I don't know. We have the Bluestone project in Pembs Nat Pk, 2 sides to that as well.
I know the strath carron valley part of its charm was the wilderness isolation and lack of people!!

[Dan Salter]

Originally Posted by stripee

Overall Paul Lister has a very interesting project. Just a couple of points though. He is considering introducing rhino and large cats and bears. How will the wildlife already there on this estate cope with this mix of top predators? Some of these animals will need supplementary feeding. I suppose this is all being thought about? It is a mix of safari park, theme park and re-wilded wilderness, I think it is a little bit of an odd mix I would have preferred if he had stuck to species indigenous to the British Isles.
Although PL has a lot of energy and good ideas, I do wonder if he is behaving somewhat like a "laird" of old. Do the people of Ardgay want this? All about jobs and regeneration but I don't know. We have the Bluestone project in Pembs Nat Pk, 2 sides to that as well.
I know the strath carron valley part of its charm was the wilderness isolation and lack of people!!

Your missing the point...all the animals...wolf, lynx, elk, brown bear etc were all once native british animals!....oh dont remember him mentioning rhino though?

[stripee]

It could work well, these are mere reservations. Is the area big enough? I think he was eyeing up a rhino last week, but I look forward to seeing the next programme.

[Dan Salter]

The area is never big enough in my opinion...no matter how big it could always do with being bigger...

Im more worried about balance and numbers....

with top predators.....you need to make sure you have a sustainable amount of smaller prey animals so that the top predators dont wipe them out in 1 season.

The bear guy said they kill moose/elk....he only bought 2 elk so far?...cant see that working.

Its still an interesting project and im all for 'rewildling'...someone has to get it so very wrong for us to learn how to do it correctly so either way this experiment is beneficial!

[stripee]

I'm a bit bothered about the predation aspect too, especially with a perimeter fence. I read somewhere that putting prey and predator together is not usually thought to be a good prospect, and also that the project would be considered a zoo because of the fence. Also that he doesn't have enough land and will have to convince his neighbours to sell some of theirs.
I've camped in forests in the US with brown bear and grizzles and in areas with coyotes and other big predators - the brown bears were more interested in chocolate and I have chased them off! They liked hanging round the litter bins too. But the national parks there are vast. There are plenty of places for prey to escape to. And they are managed by the US government, not private individuals.

PL plans to open a visitor centre in Ardgay, park and ride, and his village shop project...he could tread on a few toes in such a very small village, although I'm sure he will have support as well.
So we shall see how it all takes off, it will be interesting....

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by stripee

He is considering introducing rhino and large cats and bears.

I think there's some confusion going on here Paul Lister went to Africa to find out about rewilding & to talk to people who have done similar things.
He darted a Rhino while he was there but he only want's to re-introduce native British species.
I think it's safe to say there won't be any Rhinos at Alladale

[Tracey.A]

Originally Posted by deer boy

I think there's some confusion going on here Paul Lister went to Africa to find out about rewilding & to talk to people who have done similar things.
He darted a Rhino while he was there but he only want's to re-introduce native British species.
I think it's safe to say there won't be any Rhinos at Alladale

Blimey, that's a relief that there wont be any rhinos let loose at Alladale!

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by Tracey.A

Blimey, that's a relief that there wont be any rhinos let loose at Alladale!

It's safe until the Wolf,Lynx & Brown Bear arrive

[Tracey.A]

Originally Posted by deer boy

It's safe until the Wolf,Lynx & Brown Bear arrive

One of my cousins lives in Canada and she told me that when she goes jogging if she sees a bear she just claps her hands and off it goes. I would be scared to death, unless I was in an armoured bear proof 4 X 4. Apparently she's not nervous about the bears, but is when it comes to cougars, as they have a habit of circling round and can come at you from behind.

Tracey

[deer boy]

Wow i would like to go to Canada one day such a beautiful country & some amazing wildlife.
Running with Bears & cougars now that must be an experience

[ron1863]

Originally Posted by deer boy

Wow i would like to go to Canada one day such a beautiful country & some amazing wildlife.
Running with Bears & cougars now that must be an experience

Running away from them would be a bigger one.

My sister has lived in Toronto for nearly 30 years and I have never been - yet.

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by ron1863

My sister has lived in Toronto for nearly 30 years and I have never been - yet.

We'll go together then

[Tracey.A]

Originally Posted by deer boy

We'll go together then

My cousin lives in Toronto, I'll come to!

Tracey

[deer boy]

Originally Posted by Tracey.A

My cousin lives in Toronto, I'll come to!

Tracey

Ok for those that are interested the next WAB meet is in Canada

So far:
Me
Ron
Tracey