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30-08-2007, 10:18 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent
Posts: 1,515
| | | Dog Fighting
Tonight on BBC1 at 9.00pm Panorama
As we have been discussing Dogs Breeds ban for a while now. Thought i would remind members that this is on Tonight.
It is about an undercover team that infiltrate hardcore dogfighting gangs in uk and Europe.
I think it will be worth watching.. BUT it will be very distressing and shocking... But I think
this is where resources should be spent, rather then on good Dog owners.
Watch it and make your own mind up!!
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Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you. |
30-08-2007, 02:36 PM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 570
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Yes i seen it advertised kymba,sounds interesting,think i will give it a look.
Best from mike. |
30-08-2007, 09:40 PM
|  | Wild Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a cave
Posts: 214
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
That was the most barbaric, disturbing and cruel spectacles I have ever seen. It is just a horrific end to a life wether its a Pitbull or not. I think the programme will highlight and hopefully really push for the penultimate extermination of the gangs involved and also the breeding stock used ie Pitbull dogs. My own dog looks very much like the dogs used in these clips and I have had people try to buy him on numerous occasions and steal him over the years and I guess this would be where he ended up. However he has been a great family dog nevr had any trouble with dogs or people... But I think for the first time tonight I felt that really even if we exterminate pitbulls and Staffs Irish staffs am staffs etc....We would just move on to another breed like the Akita, dogo or mastiff....I think certain spineless people will always find away to fight animals wether its pittbulls or not and they will always be coming in th e back door from countrys that they are still legal in like mexico, Ireland some of the usa and europe etc....I agree licenses should be brought back and it should be very heavily monitored. To be honest I dont knoe the answers to this problem but its not going to go away unless the root of the problem is tackled and that is the people involved in trafficking, breeding and fighting the dogs...I am all for exterminating pitbulls from the earth as this would be the kindest possible thing to do for the breed...They must have an agonising and horrific life it would be best for them to die out...Hats of to the crew for making a vital yet disturbing portrayal of modern day Britain Ireland and Europe...It goes on right under our noses everyday...In my area of Bristol the amount of Pitbull type dogs has rocketed in the last 3 years and mainly its young gang members or kids who think they are "bad" who roll around dragging these poor dogs about to give them status! I am about to rant! I better stop..
Thats my thoughts..  |
30-08-2007, 10:04 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,732
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
I too watched it and found it very disturbing, and your right that if they did exterminate those breeds they would move on to another.
I sort of know what these dogs can do as years ago i had 2 staffs, one from only being a puppy and when i left (another story) the dogs were told to fetch and they did me  .
I would'nt own another dog no matter what breed.
jen xxx |
30-08-2007, 10:12 PM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: march, cambridgeshire
Posts: 2,176
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdurbo  I too watched it and found it very disturbing, and your right that if they did exterminate those breeds they would move on to another.
I sort of know what these dogs can do as years ago i had 2 staffs, one from only being a puppy and when i left (another story) the dogs were told to fetch and they did me .
I would'nt own another dog no matter what breed.
jen xxx | hi jen i didnt see it dont like seeing things like that makes me cry,in your post you sounded as though you had been attacked by two dogs,your dogs is that right. bett. |
30-08-2007, 10:14 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,732
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by naturelover hi jen i didnt see it dont like seeing things like that makes me cry,in your post you sounded as though you had been attacked by two dogs,your dogs is that right. bett. | Yes im affraid so, it was'nt very nice. can't imagine what it would be like for a child.
jen xxx |
30-08-2007, 10:16 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a cave
Posts: 214
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdurbo I too watched it and found it very disturbing, and your right that if they did exterminate those breeds they would move on to another.
I sort of know what these dogs can do as years ago i had 2 staffs, one from only being a puppy and when i left (another story) the dogs were told to fetch and they did me .
I would'nt own another dog no matter what breed.
jen xxx | Ouch that must have hurt!
I am of a similar view in regards to owning another dog. I have owned my dog for ten years and have had him since 6 weeks old. I have spend everyday with him and he is part of the family and has been a brillinat dog.., It seems such a shame that these animals that have played such an integeral part in mankinds evolution should encounter such an end. Dogs have played a huge role in our history as humans. I think it only fair that the breeds used in fighting are left or forced to die out for the saftey of people and kindness to the dogs. I still think deep down that dogs are made what they are by man...
Hope the "other story" worked out OK in the end 
Ian |
30-08-2007, 10:22 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,732
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by HARIMAU1610 Ouch that must have hurt!
I am of a similar view in regards to owning another dog. I have owned my dog for ten years and have had him since 6 weeks old. I have spend everyday with him and he is part of the family and has been a brillinat dog.., It seems such a shame that these animals that have played such an integeral part in mankinds evolution should encounter such an end. Dogs have played a huge role in our history as humans. I think it only fair that the breeds used in fighting are left or forced to die out for the saftey of people and kindness to the dogs. I still think deep down that dogs are made what they are by man...
Hope the "other story" worked out OK in the end
Ian | Yes it sure did hurt and it was in the street i can laugh about it now but at the time it was scary to think i had them dogs for about 8 years and they can just turn like that. As for the other story no it did'nt nor did i want it too!( i can laugh about that one too now!!  )
jen xxx |
31-08-2007, 08:14 AM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Suffolk
Posts: 2,448
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Panorama was horrible and I had to turn it off, they are some sick people in the world  |
31-08-2007, 09:02 AM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent
Posts: 1,515
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
I watched it, and was horrified at what i saw... Definately some really sick people around... I was really upset with the damage done to the dogs both physically and mentally.
But i also found it really interesting and informative.. Well done panorama..
Yet today i heard the news and Nottingham council are banning people in council houses from having more then one dog or cat... if you have more then one already you have to decide which one to get rid of!
They would be better spending their resources on targeting all the irresponsible owners and Yobs who have these fighting dogs or ones they train to be aggressive... Not the responible ones who really love, care for, and control their dogs...
Everyone who has a dog should have it chipped and be made to have a license for each dog.. and like with Car tax and insurance etc should have to show these when stopped...employ more RSPCA officers or police to do random stops.. (goverment should fund this).. if you haven't got these then the dog should be removed.. I know this wont solve the problem but it would help.
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Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you. |
31-08-2007, 03:11 PM
|  | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: west wales
Posts: 703
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
I had to shut my eyes during some of this programme. I felt quite sorry for Nipper being taken away to his doom. These disgusting people....similar types bait Badgers. It highlights the problems in getting information about the gangs, same goes for guns and drugs.....wish people didn't want all this violent stuff.
Some housing associations already ban pets or you have to apply for permission. Many rented properties won't have pets at all. I don't think this is a bad thing because many people are very casual about getting pets and don't think it through, a cat or dog is going be around perhaps up to 16 or more years. I agree, Kymba, about getting back the dog licence and chipping etc, but I expect some naughty people would get round it with fake IDs  |
31-08-2007, 03:28 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 1,732
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
The ending was worse..to kill a dog like that and it never worked and the poor thing was still alive.
It makes you wonder what go's through some peoples heads to get any enjoyment out of watching a dog fight in the first place.
jen xxx |
31-08-2007, 06:51 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Kent
Posts: 1,515
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by stripee I had to shut my eyes during some of this programme. I felt quite sorry for Nipper being taken away to his doom. These disgusting people....similar types bait Badgers. It highlights the problems in getting information about the gangs, same goes for guns and drugs.....wish people didn't want all this violent stuff.
Some housing associations already ban pets or you have to apply for permission. Many rented properties won't have pets at all. I don't think this is a bad thing because many people are very casual about getting pets and don't think it through, a cat or dog is going be around perhaps up to 16 or more years. I agree, Kymba, about getting back the dog licence and chipping etc, but I expect some naughty people would get round it with fake IDs | Perhaps they should make owners have pet passport type things so yours and your pets photo have to be on it along with the Chip number and license number.. Something has to be done as none of this is the Dogs fault, yet they are the ones who have to pay the price and suffer just for being owned by idiots!
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Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature. It will never fail you. |
01-09-2007, 07:58 AM
| | Frozen | | Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: The sunny West Midlands.
Posts: 1,133
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
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01-09-2007, 04:05 PM
| | Officer of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: west wales
Posts: 703
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
If something is done in N Ireland as a result of this prog, it will be a good thing. Gangs are always going to want macho types of dogs or dogs they can mistreat and make aggressive. Penalties for fighting need to be severe, and breeding regulated so all dogs can be traced, as you say, Kymba |
01-09-2007, 05:49 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2,542
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
I missed this thread as I've been away for two weeks. It's hard to believe that this still goes on but as the programme must have shown, it's still very common. Dogs used as status symbols and nothing else. They're shown no proper care, some dogs spend their lives in dark rooms, lonely and starving, their job - to watch over drugs, some starve to death but these people don't care, they can always get another one. then there's the dogs that go into the pit, they're both going to lose really, having one of the most abhorrent acts of cruelty forced upon them, their only release will be death. As I've said before, in America, in some areas, children are being brought up from a young age to see this as a normal part of life, they witness dog fights all the time. Some are even tought to kill the dogs and puppies that are no longer required. What sort of society is this. These people are pure evil, nothing else. It really makes me mad. Also dog fighting is often linked to orginised crime and other criminal activities. These people will also show no respect or compassion to their fellow human being, they are very cold indeed. |
01-09-2007, 05:58 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2,542
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by HARIMAU1610 That was the most barbaric, disturbing and cruel spectacles I have ever seen. It is just a horrific end to a life wether its a Pitbull or not. I think the programme will highlight and hopefully really push for the penultimate extermination of the gangs involved and also the breeding stock used ie Pitbull dogs. My own dog looks very much like the dogs used in these clips and I have had people try to buy him on numerous occasions and steal him over the years and I guess this would be where he ended up. However he has been a great family dog nevr had any trouble with dogs or people... But I think for the first time tonight I felt that really even if we exterminate pitbulls and Staffs Irish staffs am staffs etc....We would just move on to another breed like the Akita, dogo or mastiff....I think certain spineless people will always find away to fight animals wether its pittbulls or not and they will always be coming in th e back door from countrys that they are still legal in like mexico, Ireland some of the usa and europe etc....I agree licenses should be brought back and it should be very heavily monitored. To be honest I dont knoe the answers to this problem but its not going to go away unless the root of the problem is tackled and that is the people involved in trafficking, breeding and fighting the dogs...I am all for exterminating pitbulls from the earth as this would be the kindest possible thing to do for the breed...They must have an agonising and horrific life it would be best for them to die out...Hats of to the crew for making a vital yet disturbing portrayal of modern day Britain Ireland and Europe...It goes on right under our noses everyday...In my area of Bristol the amount of Pitbull type dogs has rocketed in the last 3 years and mainly its young gang members or kids who think they are "bad" who roll around dragging these poor dogs about to give them status! I am about to rant! I better stop..
Thats my thoughts.. | My first thoughts would be that your dog is a pit bull type so no wonder there are people trying to get their hands on him. He looks happy and wonderful to me. Unfortunately these dogs are victims of their breed and also victims of the bad press that they get. There are people who would steal him and put him in the pit, they are scum. I feel so sorry for these breeds of dogs, they don't seem to be able to win. I agree with you that if they were wiped out people would move onto something else. Time the government got tough with it and stopped living in cloud cuckoo land . |
01-09-2007, 06:36 PM
|  | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Northants
Posts: 3,524
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
This breed is supposed to banned 
Like everything else ie drug dealing,car ringers ect the law is being flouted and as we live in a lawless society they are allowed to get away with it.
Don't forget dog fighting is all about money. There were bets being taken one person put a bet on for 2 grand. Where there is gambling like horse racing ect. It is always at the animals expense. These dogs do not belong in society they are not family pets and should not be treated as such. They need to be culled as the law says they should. |
01-09-2007, 06:50 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 104
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Panorama was indeed very hard to watch as i did i kept glancing at my own 2 staffies ...One curled up in the armchair with a pillow under his head ...and the other on his orthopedic mattress curled up on his full single size duvet with flanallette cover !!!! and I cried for those poor dogs on that programme ........many people over the yrs have called our dogs pitbulls ....and dont really know the difference between the two ....we also have had numerous people (traveller /gypsy ) types stop and try and buy them ....whilst my daughter walks them .....or even ask if they are males and want to *borrow* them for breeding ...my daughter allways says they are neutered and
tries to make them sound offputting (with bad health problems etc)...then she will purposely walk another way home so they wont know where we live as they often drive alongside her .....they are never left outside a shop, or even our garden on their own ,or in the house unlesss its fully locked up because these type of people will stop at nothing to get their hands on what they want .(and many dogs would turn if they are in the wrong hands )....and i live in fear of somebody stealing them ...and as they are true pets ....and a major part of my family ..(.my daughter is *mummy *and i am *gran*  ...) but i would Never trust them with children (why take a risk)...as they are not used to them and if a child ever visits we get the dog cage out or shut them in the kitchen ....whose to say how they would react if a child poked them in the eye or fell on them ......and when out walking them, my daughter puts them on a lead if other dogs are in close proximity or if walkers are about ,just as its the most responsible thing to do as people panick when they see them ....its mostly other peoples dogs who run off lead to ours !! but i agree some kind of licensing needs to be put into action and we need more action from police etc ...Oh and just one more little thing ....my daughter is a trainee vet nurse in Surrey where i live and 6 months ago a lovely lady booked her dog in for a health check as she had just rescued it from Battersea Dogs Home ....well the vet took one look and called my daughter to muzzle it for safety reasons before all the examinations...the owner said O he's not vicous...and the vet said well i am not taking a risk ...the owner said well he's only a labrador cross ...and both the vet and my daughter told her in their opinion he was a pitbull !!!....she was extremely shocked as she had never seen one in her life and battersea had not only sold it to her ....she never had a home check either ....luckily she seems like a responsible lady and took the precautions of the vet practice as to the dog around children and other dogs ....so nothing surprise me about these awful situations we hear about more and more about everyday ..sorry to go on but this subject really tears in to my heart |
02-09-2007, 10:12 AM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2,542
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayleigh This breed is supposed to banned
Like everything else ie drug dealing,car ringers ect the law is being flouted and as we live in a lawless society they are allowed to get away with it.
Don't forget dog fighting is all about money. There were bets being taken one person put a bet on for 2 grand. Where there is gambling like horse racing ect. It is always at the animals expense. These dogs do not belong in society they are not family pets and should not be treated as such. They need to be culled as the law says they should. | Yes, pit bull type dogs are banned but there are still plenty about. In America some states allow them, some don't. Opinion is very divided about the breed. Pit bulls are an exploited breed and many suffer immense torture and cruelty. They can sometimes be very gregarious and can live quite happily within the family. I would not wish to own one myself but I know there are some very loving ones about, especially in the states ( when they're treated properly ). I know of a man in the states who has owned them all his life and bred them but they are not used for fighting, they are really part of the family, however he NEVER leaves any two dogs together for any length of time, he just doesn't take the risk and he knows his dogs very well. Unfortunately aggression is a known characteristic of the breed, in bred over many years by the people who strived to fight them. Many people would be shocked to learn that Staffordshire Bull Terriers were actually the original fighting dog, before any others including Pit bulls. These days many Staffies enjoy the comfort of family life and responsible breeding has reduced aggression, however they remain a bit of a Jeckyll and Hyde character, especially with other dogs. I must point out though that I've never personally had any problems with Staffies when out with my Spaniels, however I know of several unprovoked attacks, some proving fatal.
Responsible dog ownership is the only way forward to stem these sorts of problems. As I've said before the government needs to get tough with people who fight dogs and those who are not being a responsible owner. Banning a breed doesn't work as the criminals are not targeted. If a breed is banned then the law should be enforced but it's not. The real victims are the dogs. |
02-09-2007, 06:07 PM
| | Wild Member | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In a cave
Posts: 214
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by demicav My first thoughts would be that your dog is a pit bull type so no wonder there are people trying to get their hands on him. He looks happy and wonderful to me. Unfortunately these dogs are victims of their breed and also victims of the bad press that they get. There are people who would steal him and put him in the pit, they are scum. I feel so sorry for these breeds of dogs, they don't seem to be able to win. I agree with you that if they were wiped out people would move onto something else. Time the government got tough with it and stopped living in cloud cuckoo land . | He is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier just a big one.....
I think the main problem that this problem of dog fighting is that Pitbulls will always be able to be moved around imported and used in fighting due to them being legal in America and parts of Europe...It is legal to fight dogs in places like Georgia in America and mexico is also a mecca for dog fighting as is Europe...Interesting to hear that one of the Irish guys had shipped his dogs to Spain to start up over there..People will always find a way to fight creatures for money and ego and they will also always be able to find powerfull dogs to do this with as they are easy to find and even easier to abuse them. It is easy to create a powerfull fighting dog just by intercrossing very common breeds..Still dont have an answer for this.......Wish I did, but it is going to take alot more than a prime time tv show....
Ian |
02-09-2007, 07:43 PM
| | Commander of the Wild Empire | | Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Lancashire
Posts: 2,542
| | | Re: Dog Fighting
Quote:
Originally Posted by HARIMAU1610 He is a Staffordshire Bull Terrier just a big one.....
I think the main problem that this problem of dog fighting is that Pitbulls will always be able to be moved around imported and used in fighting due to them being legal in America and parts of Europe...It is legal to fight dogs in places like Georgia in America and mexico is also a mecca for dog fighting as is Europe...Interesting to hear that one of the Irish guys had shipped his dogs to Spain to start up over there..People will always find a way to fight creatures for money and ego and they will also always be able to find powerfull dogs to do this with as they are easy to find and even easier to abuse them. It is easy to create a powerfull fighting dog just by intercrossing very common breeds..Still dont have an answer for this.......Wish I did, but it is going to take alot more than a prime time tv show....
Ian | That's one big Staffie . He looks absolutely gorgeous, like he's got a big grin on his face. I wonder what they would say if they could talk . | |
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