Rowan or not?

[A-daisy-a-day]

Are both of these leaves from Rowan trees, the one on the right[facing] definately is, but is the one on the left? I nticed the leaf was larger and more unevenly serrated, and I know it isn't a common Ash



I had them in water for about three days and the Rowan was still fresh at the end, the other shrivelled, [might not be relevant]

[aeshna5]

A large number of species + cultivars of various rowans are grown in parks + gardens in addition to our native species- Sorbus aucuparia. I suspect the leaves belong to a different species of rowan, but I can't tell you which.!

[A-daisy-a-day]

I didn't know there were more species, so possibly that answers it, I was just curious, but Thanks.

[tcvarlh]

Oho, Elm and Rowans are fun to ID Here's why for Rowans :

Sorbus aucuparia, European rowan
Sorbus americana, American mountain-ash
Sorbus austriaca
Sorbus cashmiriana, Kashmir rowan
Sorbus commixta, Japanese rowan
Sorbus decora, Showy mountain-ash
Sorbus esserteauiana, Esserteau's rowan
Sorbus fosteri
Sorbus fruticosa
Sorbus glabrescens, White-fruited rowan
Sorbus harrowiana, Harrow rowan
Sorbus hupehensis, Hubei rowan
Sorbus hybrida, Finnish whitebeam
Sorbus insignis
Sorbus khumbuensis
Sorbus koehneana
Sorbus lanata
Sorbus lancastriensis
Sorbus lancifolia
Sorbus latifolia
Sorbus matsumurana
Sorbus maderensis, Madeira rowan
Sorbus microphylla, Small-leaf rowan
Sorbus oligodonta, Kite-leaf rowan
Sorbus pallescens
Sorbus pekinensis
Sorbus pinnatifida
Sorbus pinnatifida
Sorbus pluripinnata
Sorbus pohuashanensis
Sorbus pontica
Sorbus porrigentiformis
Sorbus poteriifolia
Sorbus prattii
Sorbus pseudofennica
Sorbus pseudovilmorinii
Sorbus pygmaea
Sorbus randaiensis
Sorbus redliana
Sorbus reducta, Dwarf rowan
Sorbus rehderiana
Sorbus retroflexis
Sorbus rockii
Sorbus rotundifolia
Sorbus rufo-ferruginea
Sorbus rufopilosa, Tsema rowan
Sorbus sargentiana, Sargent's rowan
Sorbus scalaris, Ladder rowan
Sorbus simonkaiana
Sorbus sitchensis, Sitka mountain-ash
Sorbus stankovii
Sorbus subcuneata
Sorbus subpinnata
Sorbus subsimilis
Sorbus taurica
Sorbus thibetica
Sorbus thibetica
Sorbus torminalis
Sorbus umbellata
Sorbus ursina
Sorbus vertesensis
Sorbus vestita
Sorbus vexans
Sorbus vilmorinii, Vilmorin's rowan
Sorbus wardii
Sorbus wilfordii
Sorbus wilmottiana

Plus several other species
Sorbus subgenus Aria

Hear from you in a month or two
H

Then you have to start on the Service trees hehehehehe

[treecreeper]

Thank goodness for 'agg.'

[Hedge Witch]

Ahh, new term alert. So do you write Sorbus agg. then?

[treecreeper]

Originally Posted by Hedge Witch

Ahh, new term alert. So do you write Sorbus agg. then?

I'd say rosaceae agg.

[Hedge Witch]

3,000-4,000 species in 100-160 genera

Might try "agg." when I next attempt an ID.

I can just imagine the looks I'd get.



ROFL

[diggleken]

its just laziness to use agg...................he he
Eyebrights one, where euphrasia agg is often seen used, because there are so many species, over 130 known, and differences are so small that sometimes location is the best indicator I gather.
Count me out of that one.
I always thought that agg was used where there were so many possibles, whereas spp was maybe from just a few likely close suspects - is that right?
Cheers
Ken

[The Woodman]

Trying to bump up your list with duplicates, H?

S. pinnatifida & thibetica, whatever next?

[Lancashire Lad]

My understanding is (Using Dandelion as an example). -

Taraxacum sp. - (species) would be used to describe a single member of the Dandelion genus when the particular species wasn't known.

Taraxacum spp. - (species,plural) would be used to describe more than one member of the Dandelion genus when none of the indvidual species in question were known.

Taraxacum ssp. - (subspecies) would be used to describe a single unidentified subspecies of the Dandelion genus.

Taraxacum subsp. - (subspecies) is an occasionally seen, and in my opinion better alternative, than ssp. as it avoids any possibly confusion with spp.

Taraxacum agg. - (aggregate) would be used when making reference to the whole of the Dandelion genus.

Regards,
Mike.

[Hedge Witch]

Can you use the family instead of the genus when you use spp.?

E.g. rosaceae spp.

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Hedge Witch

Can you use the family instead of the genus when you use spp.?

E.g. rosaceae spp.

I suppose you could, although it might be considered wrong or slightly unconventional by trained botanists.

For example, if you were describing an unidentified Sorbus, an unidentified Prunus, and an unidentified Rubus, collectively they are Rosaceae spp.

I probably added to the confusion by referring to Dandelion family in my post above, when I should have said Dandelion genus. (I've now corrected that by editing the post).

Maybe someone with a biology/science background can enlighten us.

Regards
Mike.

[KeenTeen17]

Originally Posted by diggleken

its just laziness to use agg...................he he
Eyebrights one, where euphrasia agg is often seen used, because there are so many species, over 130 known, and differences are so small that sometimes location is the best indicator I gather.
Count me out of that one.
I always thought that agg was used where there were so many possibles, whereas spp was maybe from just a few likely close suspects - is that right?
Cheers
Ken

I was told that in order to claim a find of an Eyebright, you need to send six separate samples of the plant for another person to ID and authenticate it

[A-daisy-a-day]

Crikey, what have I started here, so much for my little ol' bit of Rowan from the path edge, I didn't realize he[she] was part of such an illustrious family, I am now in awe of my own Rowan and shall treat it with a lot more respect forthwith
giving it obeisance every morning.
NOw I found this strange plant the other day....................