Sycamore good or bad?

[Alan]

Just to follow on with a question that was posted on the ‘fish threat’ thread:

The Sycamore – Acer pseudoplatanus, was probably first introduced in limited numbers prior to 1500. It is a native of Europe.

It has always been reviled by some because of the limited number of species that it can support, as well as it’s ability go grow and so spread quickly, thus blocking out the chances of more native species to prosper. It has a similar effect as Beech when it occurs in high numbers, in that it lets little light through to the forest floor, and it’s sticky fallen leaves can sometimes make it hard for under story plants to establish themselves, but not always!

In some parts of the country it is routinely removed in favour of more wildlife friendly trees such as Oak, Ash and Hazel.

The trouble is in some parts of the country – particularly around where I live, it makes up a large part of the tree population. So if we removed them to make way for others, there wouldn’t be many trees left!

In one of my local patches the woodland was planted up around 1898. There is in fact cast iron plaques/signs that state this fact. Needless to say a large percentage of this woodland is Sycamore, with Ash and Beech following. About 10 years ago huge areas of this woodland were cleared. It did seem a shame at the time, but it is a working estate so this seemed fair enough to me. The areas were then planted up again, but this time with Oak and similar. The wildlife thrives there now so in the long run this was a good thing.

In recent times the estate has been taken over by someone else, and many alterations have been taking place, most I would say for the good.

I was talking to the new gamekeeper the other week and he informed me that there were also plans to take out more of the Sycamore’s to open up the darker areas of the woodland. Of course the main aim of this is to encourage more biodiversity so the game birds thrive more, but with most schemes like this the wildlife also can benefit.

Does anybody else have similar experiences where the Sycamore is being removed for whatever reason?

Also do you agree with it?

[jezlee]

Hi Alan - I don't know of any areas of Sycamore removal around here, but I know they generally do get 'bad press'. I have always thought of them (rightly or wrongly) as an invasive species - my mother-in-law has mature sycamores near to her, and she is forever pulling up sycamore seedlings from her back garden, but as fast as she finds one and pulls it out, another appears!!

[Jonny]

Some of the voluntary groups round here do sycamore bashing, but I will sit on the fence on this, its a pretty tree and I have fond memorys as a kid with them helicoptors, but if its a problem in an area and people remove them, then thats fine by me..............Jon

[Airehead]

Just a thought - for 'invasive' read 'successful', which the sycamore obviously is.
In many situations I dislike it, but I have noticed particularly in a wooded area of Scotland that I visit often, that the sycamores when in flower are constantly buzzing with bee activity to an extent that does not occur in other trees.
Otherwise, I think the timber is very nice to work.

[Alan]

I agree at certain times of year Sycamore can support a certain amount of species, but compared to say Oak there’s no competition. I don’t think the odd standard/boundary tree makes much difference, but I was thinking more of the dense concentrations you can get when they spread unchecked.

Would anyone agree in these situations they do need managing more closely?

Or do you think a tree is a tree whatever species it is, so should be left to its own devices?

[Jonny]

Originally Posted by Alan

Would anyone agree in these situations they do need managing more closely?

Or do you think a tree is a tree whatever species it is, so should be left to its own devices?

Ok, I will use our local nature reserve for my reply. There is an area called the walnut tree plantation (has 2 walnut trees in it lol), it has a lot of sycamores in it, that is where that strange fungi I found came from, anyway the sycamores are really trying to take over in there and there are voluntary groups who go in there and remove loads of the younger ones. I am in favour of this, because the woodland is managed and we need a mixed habitat, to support the most wildlife.
If the sycamores were growing on farmland, where the farmer lets things be, then let the sycamores have there way.
Horses for courses and all that..............Jon

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Jonny

Ok, I will use our local nature reserve for my reply. There is an area called the walnut tree plantation (has 2 walnut trees in it lol), it has a lot of sycamores in it, that is where that strange fungi I found came from, anyway the sycamores are really trying to take over in there and there are voluntary groups who go in there and remove loads of the younger ones. I am in favour of this, because the woodland is managed and we need a mixed habitat, to support the most wildlife.
If the sycamores were growing on farmland, where the farmer lets things be, then let the sycamores have there way.
Horses for courses and all that..............Jon

So we agree that when sycamore is getting out of hand, and blocking out competition, the best course would be to remove them? This of course on condition that the area is replanted with more suitable species.

But as lone trees or groups of trees in a hedgerow for example, leave them be?

This seems sensible to me!............ to you?

[Jonny]

Originally Posted by Alan

So we agree that when sycamore is getting out of hand, and blocking out competition, the best course would be to remove them? This of course on condition that the area is replanted with more suitable species.

But as lone trees or groups of trees in a hedgerow for example, leave them be?

This seems sensible to me!............ to you?

Why am I getting worried where this is leading to ?
I don't really know what to say Alan, it depends and it depends. If they were taking over an area of ancient heathland, then rip them all out, I can't say I agree they are getting out of hand, they have been here a wee while now. If they are a problem in a specific area, then maybe they should be dealt with, otherwise leave them be..............Jon

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Alan

I agree at certain times of year Sycamore can support a certain amount of species, but compared to say Oak there’s no competition. I don’t think the odd standard/boundary tree makes much difference, but I was thinking more of the dense concentrations you can get when they spread unchecked.

Would anyone agree in these situations they do need managing more closely?

Or do you think a tree is a tree whatever species it is, so should be left to its own devices?

I do agree about them being no where near as diverse an ecosystem as a oak tree. But they grow large much faster and supports tons and tons of aphids which small birds love and will provide these aphids until very late in the season. I knew a twitcher who always checks out the sycamores on his patch for unusual passage migrants - hume's leaf warbler for example and he often gets lucky.
And what with ever more effective pesticides being used in gardens, I feel that a sycamore particulalrly in an urban setting must be very valuable to blue tit families and other small birds.
However, as you have suggested in some habitats I don't think removing the sycamore does any harm at all. Actually removing areas of mature trees as you point out within woodland can be a good thing esp if coppiced or replanted as these glades will support some of our rarest butterflies and birds that have declined at the same rate as traditional woodmanship.
I think a dense stand of Sycamores is probably of lesser value than a mixed stand of trees but it may also be worth considering how our native woodland will fair within a potentially warmer climate as native trees suffer and perhaps decline, we might need to think that some woodland is better than none sycamore or not?

[Alan]

Lol......... don't worry Jon, I'm not trying to lead you into the woods or anything It was a general question to everybody, just something I was talking to someone about recently

......... I'm just bored I guess ......hehee

.....someone change the subject