Organic food sources

[Paul mabbott]

Does anyone know of Abel & Cole - the 'greener grocer'. We get much of our food supplied from farmers in Yorkshire but this company has been putting through our doors - sounds cheaper &c but ...... They've also had adverts in the national paper so must be quite big .... but no address other than Abel & Cole - organic home delivery service
One particular thing that worries me is that they offer "Fresh fish caught daily by small boats off the coast of Cornwall." How the hell are they going to get this, still fresh to South Yorks?

[Paul mabbott]

....and while we're on the subject, how do we know what fish to buy nowadays? I remember ten + years ago people saying that we should eat monkfish because it was going to waste while other fish were being exterminated; now I gather that monkfish is endangered!
I gather that we should eat line-caught rather than netted fish and should prefer that from Icelandic waters rather than the North Sea. So I went to Waitrose yesterday to get their 'line-caught, Icelandic' cod (the first for months) only to see the next line ... 'air-freighted for freshness'! You can't win
I'm also totally confused about fish from farther afield - where are the sustainable fishing grounds, the sustainable species, how are these fish transported &c?? Anyone know a reliable source of information?
Cheers, Paul
PS: did anyone read the bizarre thing about prawns a few months ago? Findus catch prawns off Scorland, take them to land to freeze, ship them to Thailand, defrost them for shelling, re-freeze them to ship back to Scotland for redistribution over UK .........

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Does anyone know of Abel & Cole - the 'greener grocer'. We get much of our food supplied from farmers in Yorkshire but this company has been putting through our doors - sounds cheaper &c but ...... They've also had adverts in the national paper so must be quite big .... but no address other than Abel & Cole - organic home delivery service
One particular thing that worries me is that they offer "Fresh fish caught daily by small boats off the coast of Cornwall." How the hell are they going to get this, still fresh to South Yorks?

My boss gets Able and Cole fruit and veg and he's in Oxford, it's organic but not local.

Try these guys to find local producers (organic and not)
BigBarn - Home

as for fish, I've pretty much given up trying to work out what's ethical so limit myself to two portions of cod a year and otherwise local trout, farmed organic fish (though I know there are still problems associated with such farming) and also mackerel which I think is still ok...... I think Hoki is the best of the white fish so I eat that too

[Paul mabbott]

I don't have a problem with the local provisions (and grow an amount myself) but am worried about organic box suppliers who seem to service the whole country. Hopefully I may be worrying about nothing.

You obviously know even less about the ethics of fish-eating than me! Hopefully someone will be able to enlighten us. I'm like you - eating fish very rarely but I would like to know that what I eat is ecologically sound, if that's possible. Marks and Spencers sell an accredited Icelandic cod fillet which would feed two people for about £16. How do the supermarkets and chip shops sell it at far below that price? I don't think M&S are ripping us off, the other sources are clearly selling unsustainable, possibly illegal, fish?
Incidentally, I would not eat farmed fish because it tastes so insipid. I remember the days when salmon was a much-enjoyed and very expensive lucury; now it' cheap, easily obtained and tastes foul. Or should I say 'fowl' - the comparisons with factory-farmed chicken are obvious ....

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

My boss gets Able and Cole fruit and veg and he's in Oxford, it's organic but not local.

Try these guys to find local producers (organic and not)
BigBarn - Home

as for fish, I've pretty much given up trying to work out what's ethical so limit myself to two portions of cod a year and otherwise local trout, farmed organic fish (though I know there are still problems associated with such farming) and also mackerel which I think is still ok...... I think Hoki is the best of the white fish so I eat that too

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I don't have a problem with the local provisions (and grow an amount myself) but am worried about organic box suppliers who seem to service the whole country. Hopefully I may be worrying about nothing.

You obviously know even less about the ethics of fish-eating than me! Hopefully someone will be able to enlighten us. I'm like you - eating fish very rarely but I would like to know that what I eat is ecologically sound, if that's possible. Marks and Spencers sell an accredited Icelandic cod fillet which would feed two people for about £16. How do the supermarkets and chip shops sell it at far below that price? I don't think M&S are ripping us off, the other sources are clearly selling unsustainable, possibly illegal, fish?
Incidentally, I would not eat farmed fish because it tastes so insipid. I remember the days when salmon was a much-enjoyed and very expensive lucury; now it' cheap, easily obtained and tastes foul. Or should I say 'fowl' - the comparisons with factory-farmed chicken are obvious ....

It's true!! Occasionally I try again to work out what's right, last timeI tried ths it seemed that New Zealand hoki was the only species I could reliably buy without worry but that then seemed stupid, there must be something better closer....

Have found this:
Fish to Eat

Agreed, I gave up salmon ages ago because of a weird chemical taste to the meat, but organically farmed sea trout from Scottish Lochs seems ok - apart from the thousands of small fish they catch and grind up to feed them

eeuurrgghhhhh nothing's easy! More reading for me!!

[svenrufus]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Does anyone know of Abel & Cole - the 'greener grocer'. We get much of our food supplied from farmers in Yorkshire but this company has been putting through our doors - sounds cheaper &c but ...... They've also had adverts in the national paper so must be quite big .... but no address other than Abel & Cole - organic home delivery service
One particular thing that worries me is that they offer "Fresh fish caught daily by small boats off the coast of Cornwall." How the hell are they going to get this, still fresh to South Yorks?

Hi Paul
As I recall, Abel and Cole started in London where they had to source stuff from all over due to the obvious lack of local growers in the Smoke.

They were very successful thanks to the Islington set et al and quickly spread across the South East. I'm impressed that they have made it to Yorkshire already.

Their size means that they source a lot of stuff from overseas, which when considering things like Oranges seems inevitable, but for stuff we can grow in the UK is highly irritating. I can understand this in the winter months as the freight CO2 footprint is smaller than heated greenhouse CO2 footprint, but is inexcusable in the summertime. (I can't find the references for this apect of their trading but read it is some newspaper a while ago). It is their scale and the level of commitment that they make to supply stufff that forces them to shop widely in this way. They do state that they will source as locally as possible, it is just what is possible for them is not that great.

They have a pretty good reputation, being reliable and as you say cheaper than many other offers, but I would avoid them for the following reason.

If you spend money with your local small scale suppliers, your money stays within the local community and can be reinvested elsewhere in the community through wages and support businesses. A+C may be cheaper on the face of it to you and your wallet, but to your community they cost a lot more, and maybe that affects you, depending on where your income comes from. The New Economics Foundation have done some research on the impact of Big Business on local economies and found that every £10 spent with an outside business is worth £14 to the local economy, whereas every £10 spent with local businesses was worth £24 to the local economy due to the recycling effect I just described. (I tink these figures are right, if they are not, they are about right, and anywaym the general point is the same)

My preference would be to stick with your local suppliers, you probably have a better relationship with them than you would be able to form with a distant company like this, and you'll be better off in the long run.

Cheers
Sven
PS Can't help with the fish thing, don't eat them, but the Marine Stewardship Council runs a certification programme for fish sourcing and stocks. Have a look at MSC Home - hope it is of help.

[nightshade]

I can remember visiting a beach very early one morningand finding lots
of intresting stuff along the tide line,a local told me they had been "ploughing"
for Scallops
Read Cod by Mark Kurlansky
Veg-wise a lot of the organic I see is from the third world