Computer Trouble

Chris_Johnstone · #1 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 07:08 PM

Alrighty!

I have a PC that's about 4 years old. I used to use it a lot but since I got my notebook, it's kinda fallen by the way.

The trouble is when I turn it on, it the power goes on and the fans spin etc but nothing more. Nothing is displayed on the screen, not even the BIOS and there is no 'beep' to suggest it's made it past the POST. When I remove the RAM it makes the usual warning beeps but after replacing it - nothing.

I'm guessing it's a motherboard/processor problem. Perhaps the motherboard is shorting or something.

About a week ago I tried it and it would start up right until the windows boot screen appeared then it would power off abruptly and beep (one high, one low repeatedly).

Any ideas?

My motherboard is an old jetway V333U and the processor is an Athlon 1800 (or something around that).

Thanks

Chris

glsammy · #2 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 07:19 PM

I'd say almost certainly the power supply. I repair/build computers, and faulty power supplies are the No.1 item that fails. The fact it did once get so far as the boot screen, suggests the underlying system is probably OK.
As Power supplies are one of the cheapest items to replace, it's certainly worth trying. Don't bother too much about the quality of the supply either. I had a so called top quality one in mine, it failed last month!

I've now got a cheap and nasty one in, and all is well!

One thing, though that may cause a problem is the system age.. Do you have the coloured PS2/Mouse connectors on you computer? IF so, you'll be OK, it'll be a standard ATX.If it's an old branded system, you may have problems finding one.

Chris_Johnstone · #3 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 07:25 PM

Hey Graham,

Cheers, this is the second PS this machine's had. I have my friend's spare kicking about so I'll unplug the CD drives and try that. I was advised to use a larger supply (400W) after it failed the last time (~2 years ago) - shows how much they knew!

I'll let you know.

Chris

glsammy · #4 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 07:31 PM

2 years is ages for power supplies these days! They're all now made down to a price unfortunately, so it's hard to judge quality. One way was supposed to be the weight, well mine weighed half a ton, but still failed after only 13 months.
As it's an older system, I wouldn't worry too much about the power rating. All the latest one are designed to cope with heavier demands than your system will have. You shouldn't need to pay much more than £10-£15 for one, if your spare doesn't work!

Chris_Johnstone · #5 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 08:54 PM

Ok, used my housemate's PS and no luck.

There is power getting to the components, it's just that there's nothing happening after I turn on the power.

I to my processor out to check it and there is (what seems to be) something eroded or damaged on it.

I'll post the picture later, I'm on my housemate's computer.

Looks like my power supply has done me well!

Chris

glsammy · #6 (**permalink**) 08-01-2007, 09:35 PM

Ah well, worth trying! Corrosion on the CPU sounds like trouble! I wonder if the CPU cooler failed and it overheated? Only guessing!

lewisa · #7 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 01:04 AM

If it was an Intel, Id guess this would be auto power down due to processor over heating, but AMDs arent known for that as they run a lot cooler than Intel, could still happen though.

Have you visually confirmed that the processor fan is spinning when turned on?

Even if it is spinning, a bad contact of heatsink to processor could cause this within seconds.

Are you sure the eroding/corrosion you see on the processor isnt just the remains of thermal paste from the last time the heatsink was installed?

I have to disagree on the low cost PSU issue. There is a simple method of seperating the wheat from the chaff - if the PSU's power is rated as 'xxx watts peak power', then its a low cost cheap one that will fail with prolonged use. If it is rated 'xxx watts true power' then its most likely a high quality one that can sustain long term use.

For example, most 400w + PSU's are just bog standard 230watt models that can sustain a peak output of 400watts for a few seconds, a 400w true power PSU is designed to deliver 400 watts consistently.

One would expect to pay £40+ for a high quality true power PSU. Antec being a safe bet, Ive never had a single return on them. Stopped selling 230watt cheap models becuase they boomerang too much.

glsammy · #8 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 01:43 AM

I'm speaking from personal experience. Modern Power supplies are all switching power supplies, the total power figure used means very little, more marketing talk than anything else. What matters is the power capacity delivered on the individual power rails, i.e. the amperage on the 12v, 5 volt, 3.3 volt lines.
I've had two supposed high quality units fail, I don't see the point in spending extra money on something that still doesn't last any longer than the cheaper units.
The unit in my current system cost me £10, maybe it will let me down some time in the future, but then so did the £65 unit it replaced.
I certainly don't see the point in fitting an expensive modern power supply in a 4 year old system.

lewisa · #9 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 03:40 AM

We all speak from personal experience glsammy.

Quote:

The total power figure used means very little, more marketing talk than anything else.

The total power figure is critical. If the drain of the components in a system is greater than what the PSU can deliver the system wont work.

Its marketing talk when a low cost power supply quotes a big number that only really works for 5 seconds then drops. Put a beefy twin molex graphics card and a Prescott on a low watt PSU and you wont be running for long. How can this mean very little?

Rail amps are another critical performance factor but not the only one. High quality units perform better, one person may have bad experience, but one persons experience doesnt change the status quo. If the average £10 unit consistently outperforms the average £60 unit then its the only market in the world where that is the case. You get what you pay for and PSU's are no different.

I have no desire to argue to argue with you, but in my opinion, which like yours if I read your post correctly is a professional one, I disagree with the advice that cheap PSU's are a good idea. The topic starter now has an alternative opinion which is a good thing whichever side of the fence he decides to sit his PSU on.

glsammy · #10 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 08:24 AM

Most of what you said is very true, but doesn't apply to a 4 year old system, which was what we were talking about. 4 years ago a molex graphic card didn't exist, neither did a Prescott CPU!
The one point I will clear up is the total power figure. Of course what you said is true, but so is the fact that you can't trust the figure given. Tested units rarely meet the figure quoted (hence the marketing comment) which is why I take no notice of it! I'm more interested in the individual rail figures. No matter how powerful the total W figure given, if theres not enough amperage on any of the rail lines, you've got problems.
I could come back with a load of fancy technical jargon, and no doubt so could you. After all as I said, I'm just stating my own experience. I'm here happily using my computer with my £10.00 PSU. It ain't blown up yet!

We'll agree to disagree, as you said it's immaterial here now anyway!

Chris_Johnstone · #11 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 10:38 AM

ok I've yet to upload the photo but I think lewisa might be right in that it's just the heatspreader on the processor. There was no thermal paste from what I can see (unless it get worn away?) I know what's supposed to look like and there is none.

It's a mystery now to me...

Chris_Johnstone · #12 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 07:55 PM

ok ok update!

some other folk thought it might be the RAM acting up. so I tried my mate's RAM, in different slots - no luck. However, we did get a brief view of the screen BIOS but then it powers off and beeps one high, one low continuously.

I also found out my video vard fan has stopped spinning. I tried a PCI card (as opposed to AGP) but the same problem occurs...

I'm stumped.

Chris

FungiJohn · #13 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_Johnstone

ok ok update!

some other folk thought it might be the RAM acting up. so I tried my mate's RAM, in different slots - no luck. However, we did get a brief view of the screen BIOS but then it powers off and beeps one high, one low continuously.

I also found out my video vard fan has stopped spinning. I tried a PCI card (as opposed to AGP) but the same problem occurs...

I'm stumped.

Chris

Chris have you checked the beep code associated with your motherboard.

It does look/sound as though either the CPU is not seated properly or the CPU is damaged. This may be due to excess heat. If possible check the CPU fan or BIOS settings for the correct fan speed.

Good luck

John

Dennis1234567 · #14 (**permalink**) 09-01-2007, 08:26 PM

Multiple non stop beeps from a v333u is an overheat alarm.

Rust on a chip, any chip, is a dustbin job.

V333U motherboards have reached their life expectancy a while back.

Give up, salvage what you can, and build or buy a new one. Your computer processor and motherboard are naffed, screwed, it shouts it out loud and clear. If you don't give it up you'll just screw up those delicate plugs and pins on the bits you can salvage by repeatedly pulling them off and putting them on.

Give it up.

eeyore · #15 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 10:01 PM

okay - new question . I have a (very cheap) computer built by iqon (tescos special), with a sempron 2800 chip.

it used to be fine but after a brief experiement with over clocking and turning the VRAM and cache up it now boots as far as the desktop but then hangs with no icons showing - you can get the control panels etc by going through the task manager.

I have restored the factory settings and defaults without any joy - Can any of you expert people tell me if this is remediable or if it is toast ?

( Its not the end of the world as I treated myself to a much better PC anyway but if I can get the cheapy back on the road I might donate it to a local school or something .... )

Dennis1234567 · #16 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 10:51 PM

I did the same with my first motherboard.

Have you run the computer up in safe mode to rule out any fried motherboard addons crashing the system as a driver is loaded?

eeyore · #17 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis1234567

I did the same with my first motherboard.

Have you run the computer up in safe mode to rule out any fried motherboard addons crashing the system as a driver is loaded?

yep - it does exactly the same in safe mode

to be honest unless it is simple and quick fix i'm not going to faff about - it was only 150 notes over a year ago so if i cant fix it quickly i shall strip out the ram and the hard drive and skip the rest.

Dennis1234567 · #18 (**permalink**) 12-01-2007, 11:08 PM

CPU is ok
BIOS chip is ok
Memory is ok
Graphics is ok.
You wouldn't get as far into boot up if they wasn't.
Did you reset from the BIOS, or manual from inside the computer