Help needed building a web site.

[Paul mabbott]

On the point of hosting, domains &c. Most internet providers will give you free space (20-40 megs). This is a perfectly adequate amount *unless* you are going to put in a lot of large pictures (1.5Mb for instance). Also, you will end up with a long domain name including that of your provider. Doesn't bother me having blueyonder.co.uk at the end of my url but with some providers the urls can get very lengthy. There is also the snob value of having .org or .com but is it worth paying lots of money for? On that point, I would be inclined to go for a .uk or .eu name - then you (a) attract attention from people in your part of the world and (b) reduce attention from parts of the world where there are most spammers!

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by John

Hi guys

My problem is I probably want a bit more from mine as I am not just a photographer but a birder as well. In fact for years I was a twitcher and next year will possibly be chasing rare birds again. Because of this I don't just want a photographic album but pages that deal with trip reports, sites visited with information about them plus various other things that a birder might find informative.

When it comes down to photographs I want to split the galleries into digiscoping and DSLR photos. I don't want to mix the photos.

Within these galleries I don't just want to post photos but to have them catergorised such as Waders, Thrushes, Wildfowl etc. If I could I will then do folders within those catergories for each individual species and post all the good photos I have of those species. That would be great if acheivable.

For instance if I was looking for a photo of a wader I could go to the waders section, click into it then look for another folder, say Little Stint, click into that and look at the photos of a Little Stint. The only other choice would whether to look at the DSLR side or the Digiscoping side but I suppose a comment could be made in both the Digiscoping and DSLR folder that there are also photos in the other gallery of this bird as well.

Does all that make sense to you.

I have a heck of a lot of photos to put on a website. Not only of birds but of Moths, Butterflies, animals etc so I would need something that could contain a lot of photos.

Am I aiming too high?

John

Yes it all makes sense John and you have definitely got the right idea. All that you suggest if perfectly feasible to achieve with a good navigation system in place, but it would require quite a lot of work. Don't let this put you off though, I always think the hardest part of building a site is deciding on the layout, navigation system, as you need to be able to add and change things easily in the future.
Roger

[matt_xyz]

Coincidentally John, I'm currently in the process of building myself a website. I must admit I have found it quite complicated. I have a friend who has offered me free hosting and I bought myself a domain name which my friend will sort out. So I can't offer any advice on hosting as I haven't handled this.

In terms of the construction of the site, I am using JAlbum to manage the photos. This is free software and effectively allows you to build and organise photo albums which can then be uploaded onto your website. I have done some basic HTML coding before so I am coding a front page by hand (rather than using Dreamweaver, Front Page or similar as I have never used packages such as this), as well as other pages containing links etc.

I consider myself to be fairly computer literature but to be honest I have found all of this to be quite complicated. It has taken me a long time to iron out problems with JAlbum (and I still haven't finished by any means) and to link my own pages with JAlbum, and to manage the upload process etc. If you struggle with all things web related it might be a lot simpler to use a company who will deal with a lot of the process for you. One example is clikpic (www.clikpic.com). I think this is an option you should give serious consideration to. Here's an example of Richard Chew's clikpic website (I hope you don't mind me using this Richard!) Richard Chew photography - wildlife and landscapes: Welcome to my web site ....

it also has the advantage of looking very professional. I think their prices start from around £35 per year (the last time I looked) and they will also sell you a domain name of your choice (i.e. your own web address with your name in it, if this is what you want).

Matt

[Ollie]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

On the point of hosting, domains &c. Most internet providers will give you free space (20-40 megs). This is a perfectly adequate amount *unless* you are going to put in a lot of large pictures (1.5Mb for instance). Also, you will end up with a long domain name including that of your provider. Doesn't bother me having blueyonder.co.uk at the end of my url but with some providers the urls can get very lengthy. There is also the snob value of having .org or .com but is it worth paying lots of money for? On that point, I would be inclined to go for a .uk or .eu name - then you (a) attract attention from people in your part of the world and (b) reduce attention from parts of the world where there are most spammers!

I agree, I would definitely register my own domain name and have a .uk ending
Roger

[Jane_Russell]

Originally Posted by John

Hi guys

My problem is I probably want a bit more from mine as I am not just a photographer but a birder as well. In fact for years I was a twitcher and next year will possibly be chasing rare birds again. Because of this I don't just want a photographic album but pages that deal with trip reports, sites visited with information about them plus various other things that a birder might find informative.

When it comes down to photographs I want to split the galleries into digiscoping and DSLR photos. I don't want to mix the photos.

Within these galleries I don't just want to post photos but to have them catergorised such as Waders, Thrushes, Wildfowl etc. If I could I will then do folders within those catergories for each individual species and post all the good photos I have of those species. That would be great if acheivable.

For instance if I was looking for a photo of a wader I could go to the waders section, click into it then look for another folder, say Little Stint, click into that and look at the photos of a Little Stint. The only other choice would whether to look at the DSLR side or the Digiscoping side but I suppose a comment could be made in both the Digiscoping and DSLR folder that there are also photos in the other gallery of this bird as well.

Does all that make sense to you.

I have a heck of a lot of photos to put on a website. Not only of birds but of Moths, Butterflies, animals etc so I would need something that could contain a lot of photos.

Am I aiming too high?

John

The good thing about webdesign is that you can do just about anything!

Coppermine can certainly be used to store photos in different categories/albums. I find it very useful. There's a help forum for coppermine somewhere. I'll see if I can find a link for you if that would helpful -- I don't want to swamp you with info though.

Jane

[DaiTheDragon]

John your PM box is full, I can't send you a pm.

Dai

[John]

I have read all your comments and have realised that what I said in the very beginning is what is needed. A lot of what has been said has gone right over my head. Not anybody's fault it is just that the terminology surrounding web sites mean nothing to me. I am not very good at reading instructions, never have been, so I tend to try and do things myself. sometimes I succeed, sometimes I don't.

Web site design is a different matter. I know more or less what I want but haven't a clue how to go about it and I have to reiterate that it looks more than ever that I will need someone with me to point me in the right direction.

It looks like this isn't going to happen.

I have looked at various programmes available, including the WebPlus 8 programme I have, and it is all double dutch to me.

I thought this might happen. It is a very depressing part of me that I can't acheive these types of things with a computer whereas I can do other things that seem to come out ok.

I have revisted this problem many times over the years and there just seems to be a blockage in my brain that doesn't allow me to understand the basics of web site building.

I don't know if you guys and gals can understand what I mean, and the sheer frustration behind it, but it is really bugging me that after all these years of trying I am no further forward to getting a web site of my own.

Is there anything in your lives where you just can't bottom something out that you want to do. If there is then you know exactly where I am coming from.

John

[John]

Originally Posted by DaiTheDragon

John your PM box is full, I can't send you a pm.

Dai

I have deleted a few messages.

Sorry Dai.

John

[Tormentil]

Originally Posted by John

My ISP is NTLWorld if that helps.

NTL gives all its customers 55Mb of webspace free.

Checkout your NTL account at ntlworld.com and have a look at NTL webspace

[lewisa]

Try this John...

Plogger Administrative Login

username johnwab
password 12345678

Thats an example of an off the shelf gallery package.

Ive uploaded a couple of photos and made a couple of albums to start with. You can view the gallery here Plogger Gallery




Then try this -

Johns Website

Click the login link and use the same username and password details as above. Thats an example of an off the shelf blog package, which is about the easiest way of managing content on a website there is.

click the 'Add Entry' link and try adding your own entry to the site.





They were both set up without typing a single line of code. They are exampes of the Open source content management systems mentinoed in my 1st post.

They may not be 100% exactly what you require, but if you want 100% of what you require, your either going to have to pay someone, or spend time learning (which Im sure you could do if you give it a go!)

They will be live for the rest of the day then I will be deleting them.

If people other than John could refrain from logging in it would be appreciated.

[Alan]

Lewisa,

Those examples look really good!

I’ve only hand-coded and used dreamweaver to create/manage sites.

Can I ask, do you usually use content management software such as plogger, as a stand-alone application or do you integrate it with design software such as dreamweaver (at least at the setup stage)?

Alan

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Alan

Can I ask, do you usually use content management software such as plogger, as a stand-alone application or do you integrate it with design software such as dreamweaver (at least at the setup stage)?

Those two examples are pretty much as they arrive out of the box. Not a single line of code was needed. If I was to add a design to the gallery for example, I would hand code the design in dreamwever, there are then a couple of simple bits of PHP code that you can place anywhere suitable within a page, and this is what triggers the display of the gallery.

I use Dreamweaver pretty much in coder view 100% of the time. The WYSIWIG side of Dreamweaver is good, but it produces spurious code and things can usually be done more elgantly by hand, albeit a little slower.

Another problem with the WYSIWIG is that there are loads of other packages (ecommerce for example) that use Dreamweaver extentions and it simply isnt possible to use WYSIWIG in those circumsatances, so I find most of the time im forced to hand code.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by lewisa

Those two examples are pretty much as they arrive out of the box. Not a single line of code was needed. If I was to add a design to the gallery for example, I would hand code the design in dreamwever, there are then a couple of simple bits of PHP code that you can place anywhere suitable within a page, and this is what triggers the display of the gallery.

I use Dreamweaver pretty much in coder view 100% of the time. The WYSIWIG side of Dreamweaver is good, but it produces spurious code and things can usually be done more elgantly by hand, albeit a little slower.

Another problem with the WYSIWIG is that there are loads of other packages (ecommerce for example) that use Dreamweaver extentions and it simply isnt possible to use WYSIWIG in those circumsatances, so I find most of the time im forced to hand code.

Thanks for that..

I usually use Dreamweaver for the initial design and set-up, but always end up tweaking it - especially for CSS and getting rid of unneeded <p> tags etc. Frontpage and a lot of the other apps are even worse for code-cleaning though!

I started with Notepad and then went onto NoteTab Lite, until I eventually aquired Dreamweaver.

Alan

ps: sorry for butting-in John!

[lewisa]

Originally Posted by Alan

I started with Notepad and then went onto NoteTab Lite, until I eventually aquired Dreamweaver.

Snap, exactly the same here. Thats the best way to learn.

Its amazing how prevelant Notetab Lite is as a staging post between notepad and dreamweaver, ive come across loads of peolpe who took that route.

[John]

Hi guys

I am going to one of the WAB members for a couple of days and he reckons that with his expertise we should have a web site designed fairly quickly around my ideas on what I want.

This is really what I want to do, sit down with someone and watch what is needed to be done. That way I can learn, and take notes, on what is being done that will make sense to me.

By next weekend I hope to have something in place. Wish me luck.

John

[Alan]

Originally Posted by John

Hi guys

I am going to one of the WAB members for a couple of days and he reckons that with his expertise we should have a web site designed fairly quickly around my ideas on what I want.

This is really what I want to do, sit down with someone and watch what is needed to be done. That way I can learn, and take notes, on what is being done that will make sense to me.

By next weekend I hope to have something in place. Wish me luck.

John

Good luck John!

[coldun]

Hi

I came to the Internet several years ago knowing nothing (I mean nothing).

My Husband sat with me and we went from (learning email) which I laugh at how afraid I was of it then... to building my websites and sites for other people these days.

I found having someone who I could go back and back and back asking questions (and helping me understand what I had done wrong worked best for me).

I use frontpage but use other sites to host photos (in some cases) it all depends on what you want.

Being able to maintain your own site is always best..as you can change and add new material as and when you want. There is nothing worse than websites that are full of out of date information and old photos that never change from year to year.

Dreamweaver is 'complicated' if you are learning from scratch..it is a very detailed package but worth it (again depends on what you want)!

I am struggling with 'trying' to learn Java..(as I love the proffessional sites that use it) makes a really impressive web site! But it aint easy...

I would say if learning keep it simple (the rest will then follow).

If stuck Google is great at showing examples and often giving the answers. Someone somewhere will have gone through exactly the same process as you!

I had yellow stickies (stuck all over the place in the beginning).

Good Luck
Coleen

[cherrybee]

Originally Posted by John

Hi guys

I am going to one of the WAB members for a couple of days and he reckons that with his expertise we should have a web site designed fairly quickly around my ideas on what I want.

This is really what I want to do, sit down with someone and watch what is needed to be done. That way I can learn, and take notes, on what is being done that will make sense to me.

By next weekend I hope to have something in place. Wish me luck.

John

Good luck John look forward to seeing it when it is up and running.have faith yoiu can do it

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by cherrybee

.I am afraid my site has trailing cursers and flashing Titles but i like it and many others too.But mine is not professional it is my personal site about my home town.

I wasnt having a pop at you CB ,and yours is positively understated compared to some others I have seen - some people , including some wab members tho i am not naming any names, have used so many of the different effects on the same page that they have created an effect which makes one feel positively queasy

Obviously if this makes these members happy then that is fine , but the point i was making to john was that if he wants a site to showcase his pictures to other photographers and birders it is better to have a site which is understated to focus the attention on the photos rather than on the web effects and surrounds.

[John]

Hi Pete

I agree with you on this point. I too would rather have a simple but effective site. Hopefully that is what I will end up with.

John

[cherrybee]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I wasnt having a pop at you CB ,and yours is positively understated compared to some others I have seen - some people , including some wab members tho i am not naming any names, have used so many of the different effects on the same page that they have created an effect which makes one feel positively queasy

Obviously if this makes these members happy then that is fine , but the point i was making to john was that if he wants a site to showcase his pictures to other photographers and birders it is better to have a site which is understated to focus the attention on the photos rather than on the web effects and surrounds.

Its ok Pete I forgot me smilies. I know you weren't having a pop at me.It is only my second year of having the site and I was so chuffed with myself for learning it all without any books and stuff I even made my own flashing things in PSP
Maybe when I have growed up I will change it.Just a silly kid at heart

[John]

Well I am back. We worked on it last night and this morning. He is doing the finishing touches to it and will burn it to disc and post it to me. He will then coach me through putting it into Dreamweaver and what to do next about purchasing my own site.

I know what name I am using and have checked out to see if that domain is still free, and it is.

The website will be made up of an entry page (a splash site he calls it). On this page will be a photo of my Digiscoping kit (scope and CP4500) and by the side of it my 30D and 100-400 lens. He will then work it so that five digiscoping images come out of the scope and five DSLR images come out of the camera.

Behind that will be five pages. He has created a really nice header (well I think it's nice). I chose the colours for the website and it is in two stages of green (dark and a lighter green).

We hope to have it online before the weekend but obviously it will still be under construction with many photos needing to be uploaded to it.