Apples and Pears

[nightshade]

Apple trees are very good for wildlife (more than one is even better) there are many english apples but does anyone still grow them? I remember a large dessert apple with a smokey flavour but cannot recall the name
Pears, how many varieties are there and are they good for wildlife?

[Wild-Woman]

Well the apple drops are enjoyed by birds and Red Admirals in my garden. Plus I'm lazy. Haven't got a pear tree so can't say. julie

[badgerwatcher]

I would recommend a visit to Brogdale, the national fruit 'library', near Faversham in Kent. It is an absolutely fascinating place, where you can go on tours led by very knowledgeable people around the orchards of every variety of fruit trees you remember from your childhood, plus new ones. They also sell the fruits in season, and do talks, I believe, on grafting and all sorts of stuff like that, and they have cider festivals and such like , I think too. Plum season is worth a visit! And you can buy fruit bushes and trees, cordons, etc, and can get all the old varieties. I've never done it, I've not had a garden before.

[smartie]

Yes, birds and much other wildlife like pears as well as apples, and there are more varieties than you can shake a stick at. Visiting Brogdale is a good idea to see the huge variety available. Another good source for buying trees, if you want them, is keepers-nursery.co.uk. They sell a lot of unusual varieties as well as the usual ones and I've found them very reliable on quality.

We are trying to grow some of the traditional varieties like Cox's Orange Pippins and Egremont Russet as cordons, but it will probably be another couple of years before we get any serious fruit. We had one pear this year (Beurre Hardy)

[Susie]

I've only got a small garden but I still manage to have four apple trees and a pear tree The speckled wood butterflies love to feed on the over-ripe pears.

I'm (still) hoping to move shortly and am grateful for the link to the nursery because in the next garden I would like to grow some more unusual varieties of fruit trees.

[eeyore]

there is also a very good apple nursery at luddgershal in bucks Bernwode Plants-Traditional British Apple Trees which can supply a vast array of original varietals of apples , pears , plums, cherrys etc. We bought all our trees for our community orchard work there.

be warned however that the owners are a slightly excentric couple who on my last visit also tried to sell me their cat

[Susie]

Have they got any dogs? I'm gonna be after a dog soon.

[nightshade]

The apple that has a smokey flavour(especially in apple wine) is
I am told Ellisons Orange.There are (fortunately)more and more people growing old english varieties,the flavours are amazing.
My favourites are Russets,Worchester Pearmain

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Susie

Have they got any dogs? I'm gonna be after a dog soon.

Will you go to Battersea?


As for orchards and old fruit varieties I think it's really sad that we've pretty much lost a lot of them. I'm hoping to do some orchard survey work ( and hunt the noble chafer beetle which loves rotting fruit wood)and you can get books to identify them or you can send the fruit away to be checked. We've lost so many orchards but some villages are even named after local fruit trees specific to that area. You can't get a decent apple in the supermarket and sometimes the ones we buy are up to a year old and have been kept in cold storage. I like russets fresh off the tree or Cox's or Worcester's (growing in grandparents garden). There's some lovely orchards around here and although it's nice the wildlife is left alone some of them are neglected too much.

[Paul mabbott]

I do, but I've also forgotten their names - an olde russet and an olde pippin but also a modern variety for, well, variety. Has anyone seen a russet in the shops recently? Even the Egremont, which used to be ubiqitous at this time of year, seems to be unavailable.
Pears are a bigger problem to grow *and* to store. Fine if you're just growing for the birds! But if you are doing that then why not just go for crab apples?
I'm a big fan but I think a lot of the value of orchards for insects such as the noble chafer is that they thrive (along with many other beetles &c) on *old* trees. Sadly, when the old trees are chopped down, whatever you plant new is abit irrelevent.
Ho hum, he says, eating a big ripe russet!

Originally Posted by nightshade

Apple trees are very good for wildlife (more than one is even etter) there are many english apples but does anyone still grow them? I remember a large dessert apple with a smokey flavour but cannot recall the name
Pears, how many varieties are there and are they good for wildlife?

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

I do, but I've also forgotten their names - an olde russet and an olde pippin but also a modern variety for, well, variety. Has anyone seen a russet in the shops recently? Even the Egremont, which used to be ubiqitous at this time of year, seems to be unavailable.
Pears are a bigger problem to grow *and* to store. Fine if you're just growing for the birds! But if you are doing that then why not just go for crab apples?
I'm a big fan but I think a lot of the value of orchards for insects such as the noble chafer is that they thrive (along with many other beetles &c) on *old* trees. Sadly, when the old trees are chopped down, whatever you plant new is abit irrelevent.
Ho hum, he says, eating a big ripe russet!

Have you seen many noble chafers Paul? How rare are they? I've got to try and find some.

[Susie]

Originally Posted by honeybee

Will you go to Battersea?


As for orchards and old fruit varieties I think it's really sad that we've pretty much lost a lot of them. I'm hoping to do some orchard survey work ( and hunt the noble chafer beetle which loves rotting fruit wood)and you can get books to identify them or you can send the fruit away to be checked. We've lost so many orchards but some villages are even named after local fruit trees specific to that area. You can't get a decent apple in the supermarket and sometimes the ones we buy are up to a year old and have been kept in cold storage. I like russets fresh off the tree or Cox's or Worcester's (growing in grandparents garden). There's some lovely orchards around here and although it's nice the wildlife is left alone some of them are neglected too much.

We are lucky to have an orchard around here too, Home Farm in Iver, Buckinghamshire. It is a pick your own farm with 13 varieties of apple as well as pear and plum trees, vegetables and soft fruit. I love taking the kids there (although they should weigh us on the way in and the way out. lol). Every year they have an apple festival which is great fun.

As for the dog, we have a local branch of the Dogs Trust and my next door neighbour works there so she is keeping an eye out for the type of pooch we have in mind.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Susie

We are lucky to have an orchard around here too, Home Farm in Iver, Buckinghamshire. It is a pick your own farm with 13 varieties of apple as well as pear and plum trees, vegetables and soft fruit. I love taking the kids there (although they should weigh us on the way in and the way out. lol). Every year they have an apple festival which is great fun.

As for the dog, we have a local branch of the Dogs Trust and my next door neighbour works there so she is keeping an eye out for the type of pooch we have in mind.

Can relate to that, taking my little one to a fruit farm and orchard, her face was purple..."no we've not been helping ourselves to blackberries"
you'll have to get one that's not scared of fireworks ...a dog that is!

[Airehead]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Has anyone seen a russet in the shops recently? Even the Egremont, !

Yes, I have bought Egremont Russet occasionally in our supermarkets BUT too often I find "Cox's apples" which are clearly not Cox's Pippins (which rattle when you shake them).

Does anyone remember "Le Crunch"? I.e. the french advert on telly some years ago. It always annoyed me that there was no British advertising response, particularly since the apple is the only fruit which grows better in England than anywhere else in the world. Then we had the gale which decimated some of the orchards which seemed to be followed by general apathy about the British apple.

[Susie]

I remember the Le Crunch ads. I love apples generally but I am not keen on French Golden Delicious, they must be one of the most insipid apples going.

[Garden Carpet]

If we have the best apple growing climate in the world why on earth has the government allowed Brussels to bully our apple growers into grubbing out the old orchards. They dont seem to be replacing them either. It saddens me to see this ... despite the wood being great for woodturning

Does anyone remember Crispin apples... huuuuuge and juicy... I havnt seen one in years. In fact the last one I had was bought on arrival at Dorchester Market and I still hadnt finished it by the time we returned to the car.
Jaki

[badgerwatcher]

What about Beauty of Bath, best eaten whilst sitting in the tree! Don't keep well.

[nightshade]

Originally Posted by badgerwatcher

What about Beauty of Bath, best eaten whilst sitting in the tree! Don't keep well.

Ah I remember them well,the favourite tree was in a builders yard and a night time excursion turned to embarassment when a torch was turned on and lit up the tree
like a huge table lamp,PC Hitchcock turned up as if by magic

[nightshade]

I do find many isolated (very old) cider apple trees on housing estates where
apple orchards have been cut down for building land,there are again many
different varietys most of them have wonderful names

[Paul mabbott]

Don't think it was bullying - more like bribery! Anyway, the big problem comes from the supermarket chains who only want to sell uniform size, uniform taste, flawless apples. They tend to have one flaw - no taste!

Originally Posted by Garden Carpet

........ government allowed Brussels to bully our apple growers into
grubbing out the old orchards. They dont seem to be replacing them either. It saddens me to see this ... despite the wood being great for woodturning

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Don't think it was bullying - more like bribery! Anyway, the big problem comes from the supermarket chains who only want to sell uniform size, uniform taste, flawless apples. They tend to have one flaw - no taste!

have you seen the new tesco ads for apples? waitrose are selling non-perfect fruit and veg now. A lot of the friut and veg in supermarkets has no taste, tomatoes especially.

[Paul mabbott]

No, I don't look at adverts. Haven't seen anything other than 'perfect', wrapped apples in my local store. They have, very occasionally, had unwrapped organic potatoes and a few other things but not often. Yes, I hear that Waitrose can be good - I'll have to go into town and investigate!
Yes, in growing things to order they use varieties that are reliably flaw-free and they grow them as quickly as possible - maximum water and controlled feeding so that vegetables have very little flavour ... even the organic ones in some cases!

Originally Posted by honeybee

have you seen the new tesco ads for apples? waitrose are selling non-perfect fruit and veg now. A lot of the friut and veg in supermarkets has no taste, tomatoes especially.

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

No, I don't look at adverts. Haven't seen anything other than 'perfect', wrapped apples in my local store. They have, very occasionally, had unwrapped organic potatoes and a few other things but not often. Yes, I hear that Waitrose can be good - I'll have to go into town and investigate!
Yes, in growing things to order they use varieties that are reliably flaw-free and they grow them as quickly as possible - maximum water and controlled feeding so that vegetables have very little flavour ... even the organic ones in some cases!

Waitrose is my favourite of the supermarkets but a weekly family shop can get a bit pricey so it's usually asda as i get a discount..they're getting better for local and organic produce.I think Waitrose make sure their farmers use field margins. Marks and sparks are the only ones to use all free range eggs. Co-op seem to have the best food labelling.
Did you see my n.chafer Q btw?

[Paul mabbott]

Most of the supermarkets make some effort to be, or at least appear to be, environmentally friendly but it's so patchy and unreliable. Yes, I believe Waitrose are making serious efforts - they even sell organic beer! But they tend to be expensive, not many of their stores and don't do deliveries unless you're within the M25.
Co-op is good - reducing wrapping, their wrapping is biodegradable and they go for fair-traded stuff ... sometimes ... again, it's the unreliability.

No, didn't see your query - been a bit busy lately so may well have missed posts! Sorry.

Originally Posted by honeybee

Waitrose is my favourite of the supermarkets but a weekly family shop can get a bit pricey so it's usually asda as i get a discount..they're getting better for local and organic produce.I think Waitrose make sure their farmers use field margins. Marks and sparks are the only ones to use all free range eggs. Co-op seem to have the best food labelling.
Did you see my n.chafer Q btw?

[Airehead]

Originally Posted by Susie

I am not keen on French Golden Delicious, they must be one of the most insipid apples going.

Another annoying thing about apples in our markets is that in spite of our useless Trade Descriptions Act foreign growers are apparently allowed to send us apples with fictitious names to disguise them as varieties we recognise. It is sad that so many people are willing to be fooled and sadder still that English growers do nothing to put themselves in the public eye.