Very very concerned...

[ian_g]

If what I'm going to tell you next is illegal then I would like to know.

Yesterday, whilst out on a long walk, we walked through some farmland and we were forced off the main public footpath due to the farmer having not made a distinct path. Anyway, due to this we ended up walking around some of the cattle sheds and then I noticed something which affected me really badly.

Around the other side of the cattle sheds, pretty much out of sight, there were 50+ makeshift 'boxes' which comprised of a wooden frame with two 'chambers' that were housed by chicken wire all around them. I'm presuming these were intended for transporting chickens but some of them had crows in them. These crows were obviously unable to escape because the 'sliding door' which was located at the top of these boxes was shut. Now then, as clever as crows might be, I cannot see how they could have possibly decided to enter the box and then decide to shut the lid themselves.

I was going to free the crow myself because it was utterly distraught in the small area that it was enclosed in but Tanya (my partner) advised I shouldn't, just in case we were being watched, and in effect, we were trespassing. Looking back, I wish I'd gone with my own instincts because the box was in direct sunshine and it appeared that the crow had no food or water.

Do farmers have rights to capture crows for I do know they can cause crop damage. Whatever the answer is, I just think it's an evil and inhumane act.

Ian G

[Storming]

I don't think that it's illegal to catch crows, but I would be concerned myself on the bird flu front if I saw a crow in such close proximity to chickens.

I know that crows (and especially magpies) are regularly killed by farmers, not because they eat grain but because they raid the nests of the smaller insect-eating birds which everyone wants

[canonman]

Hi
Not sure of the answer to your question, but as you say it's a bit inhumane to keep them in full sunshine to suffer.
If they have the right to kill them why not do it straight away and save all that suffering.
Hope someone on here with more hnowledge can give you the answer
maybe someone like the RSPCA would be able to give you more information
Mick

[DL]

Its fairly common around here for shooting estates and some hill farms around here to use Larsens to trap corvids. Legaly the trap must have a supply of water (and possibly food) and must be checked daily.

http://www.trapman.co.uk/metal-larsen-trap.htm

[ian_g]

Thanks for all your replies regarding this, and thanks DL for providing me the link. It's quite disturbing really for the trap did seem to fit the legal requirements but as Canonman and myself have stated, it's a rather inhumane of going about it. Surely just shooting them but prevent far less suffering?

Ian G

[2Foxy]

I don't know if it's worth further adding to this disturbing question, but you could try this link. http://www.defra.gov.uk/
It's the governing body who have taken over from M.A.A.F, there is a section at the top of the home page on animal welfare. Maybe an e-mail or phone call might help to put your mind at rest. At least then you'll know that if anything illegal was being carried out it will be investigated by the proper authorities.
What a shame you had to see this. Good luck.

[Oy]

Leaving the Crow issue for a moment...

Yesterday, whilst out on a long walk, we walked through some farmland and we were forced off the main public footpath due to the farmer having not made a distinct path. Anyway, due to this we ended up walking around some of the cattle sheds and then I noticed something which affected me really badly.

This is definately somehting you should raise with your Local Authority's Public Rights of Way people. The footpath should be clearly waymarked at the very least. There are all sorts of safety issues with you wandering around a working farm off the Public Right of Way!

[eeyore]

Legally speaking a landowner can use a live bird as a lure in a larsen (cage) trap but it must be provided with food and water. There are also minimum dimensions for the larsen - though i cant remember off hand what they are.

It sounds to me as if this farmer is within his rights regarding captivity but is breaking the cruelty laws by keeping them in full sun without an adquate food supply.

with these cases it is worth contacting the RSPB who may well have their investigations unit look into it further.

[ian_g]

Yes, it was a shame

As with anything, what the eyes don't see, the heart doesn't grieve. If people go about things like this then there's very little one can do about it, but as with Fox hunting and Badger baiting, it's still putting an animal or bird in a distressing situation, and that I can't bear

Ian G

[DL]

Originally Posted by ian_g

Surely just shooting them but prevent far less suffering?

Ian G

Tightening of firearms laws in recent years led to a number of shepherds that I am aware of giving up their gun licences. This led to a brief increase in the use of traps but in general I see far fewer of them than I did ten years ago or more.