Simon King's a big girl's party frock!

Jim Ford · #1 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 12:12 PM

I've been going to the Cairngorms hillwalking for about 20 years now, and always wanted to see the 'Krumholtz' scots pines on Creag Fhiaclach:

I'd made a couple of half-hearted attempts to get there, but not having found a visible path through the difficult terrain, given up.

Earlier this year there was a television programme with Simon King, where he was on Creag Fhiaclach for the pines. Now, we often see Simon King - a big strapping lad, striding along with a heavy camera and tripod over his shoulder. So I thought that if he went up there with his crew and gear, it couldn't be too difficult.

I eventually found an indistinct path, but it was very heavy going with the path often petering out. I've been up almost all the munros in the Cairngorms, but found this route particularly tiring - but eventually made it:

So, why's Simon King a 'big girl's party frock'? Well, there's no way he could have got up there, with all his kit and crew on foot - he must have used a helicopter. There's plenty of clear ground for one to land above the tree line. So instead of manfully toiling up for hours as I did, he and his crew daintily stepped out of the helicopter, shot the scene and brushed themselves off before going back to the hotel bar!

Jim

Hedge Witch · #2 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 12:17 PM

Tee hee, Jim, your thoughts on this are highly amusing

If he really did do it, let's hope he doesn't reply - or goodness know's what he'll call you. LOL

derelict · #3 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 01:23 PM

I had similar thoughts about his recent film on Fallow Deer in the New Forest - years ago when he had hair he did one there "Rush the Fallow Buck" which put together a generalised Fallow Deer life, complete with foxes, forest fires, poachers etc. My suspicion about the 2007 one is that he simply went to a known rut site in October and spent ooh maybe three days filming there. The resulting 15 minutes piece was indubitably a more realistic presentation than the "Rush" film which had obvious continuity issues but it didn't bite the bullet as to the background to the rut, a sophisticated process which takes place over a couple of months. But this is true of so much TV wildlife footage... you have a time slot to fill and a budget...

Kayleigh · #4 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 02:28 PM

I'm not a big girl, but he can mess with my party frock any time

ron1863 · #5 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 02:35 PM

There was a series on a few years ago in Scotland where the commentator was "walking" the west highland way. He was actually being transported by helicopter from point to point, shooting a few minutes for the camera then back onto the helicopter.

PMG · #6 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 02:52 PM

Logic tells you that most progs are done this way - as much as we might like to think of whoever it is experiencing these places the way the rest of does is unrealistic. But does it matter? So long as they are showing us places I'm happy to watch

Pauline

mrs fish · #7 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 03:00 PM

Sir David Attenborough really did get his hands dirty for wildlife programmes , my hero

derelict · #8 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ron1863

There was a series on a few years ago in Scotland where the commentator was "walking" the west highland way. He was actually being transported by helicopter from point to point, shooting a few minutes for the camera then back onto the helicopter.

Given the cost of film crews even today that doesn't surprise me. Back in the bad old unionised days there was a shoot on one episode of The Mysterious World of Arthur C. Clarke up in Aberdeenshire that overran - it was worked out that with overtime rates being what they were (they went up by a multiple every extra hour) it was cheaper to fly the whole film crew back to London ASAP and to fly a fresh one up to Aberdeen! Which was duly done. And this was in the days before budget airlines and cheap flights. Result: the spectacular pyrotechnic night sequences went by the board... but the project came in under budget...

Jim Ford · #9 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 03:16 PM

It's the same with Nicholas Crane (of the 'Coast' series). A recent programme about Scotland, was claimed to have the shown the classic walk through the Lairig Ghru. The programme only showed the beginning, up to the Pools of Dee, and the end at Derry Lodge.

I reckon Nick Crane did the Rothiemurchs end, nipped round by 4x4 to the Linn 'o Dee via Granton on Spey, Wade's Military road to Tomintoul and Braemar. Then up the track to Derry Lodge to finish filming. They totally missed out 2/3rds of the route with the most spectacular and dramatic scenery, including this bit:

Jim

ellen h · #10 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrs fish

Sir David Attenborough really did get his hands dirty for wildlife programmes , my hero

Mine too!!

ellen

Wildbear · #11 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 07:56 PM

I do not worry the way 'they' do it, if it looks good and not harmful in any way. What really counts is my own experiences and outcomes that really count.

Simon King, Andy Rouse you both rock keep up the good work and give Jim Ford a lift next time please

Deer Stalker · #12 (**permalink**) 07-09-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derelict

I had similar thoughts about his recent film on Fallow Deer in the New Forest - years ago when he had hair he did one there "Rush the Fallow Buck" which put together a generalised Fallow Deer life, complete with foxes, forest fires, poachers etc. My suspicion about the 2007 one is that he simply went to a known rut site in October and spent ooh maybe three days filming there.

He would have been shown the stand by one of the Forest Keepers.

Hobjob · #13 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

It's the same with Nicholas Crane (of the 'Coast' series). A recent programme about Scotland, was claimed to have the shown the classic walk through the Lairig Ghru. The programme only showed the beginning, up to the Pools of Dee, and the end at Derry Lodge.

I reckon Nick Crane did the Rothiemurchs end, nipped round by 4x4 to the Linn 'o Dee via Granton on Spey, Wade's Military road to Tomintoul and Braemar. Then up the track to Derry Lodge to finish filming. They totally missed out 2/3rds of the route with the most spectacular and dramatic scenery, including this bit:

Jim

Nick crane ran the himylayas with his brother some years back, and was a triatholete in the past too, so he is well capable of doing it.

Wild-Woman · #14 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMG

Logic tells you that most progs are done this way - as much as we might like to think of whoever it is experiencing these places the way the rest of does is unrealistic. But does it matter? So long as they are showing us places I'm happy to watch

Pauline

Yes-I agree. Imagine how long it would have taken to film 'Coast' for instance! They'd be another few years before the first episode was ready!

cybershot · #15 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PMG

Logic tells you that most progs are done this way - as much as we might like to think of whoever it is experiencing these places the way the rest of does is unrealistic. But does it matter? So long as they are showing us places I'm happy to watch

Pauline

It's always good to hear the voice of reason echoing through WAB

David

derelict · #16 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild-Woman

Yes-I agree. Imagine how long it would have taken to film 'Coast' for instance! They'd be another few years before the first episode was ready!

And think how long each episode would have to be! I don't watch it because I cannot abide Neil Oliver's voice...

The downside of this "faction" approach is that we end up living vicariously through the agency of others, not all of whom merit that trust. After all they are inviting us to share the experience they never had... I can dimly remember there being a terrific spat in the world of in wildlife films over productions employing an excessive use of studio footage of captive animals doing what people thought they did, intercut with recycled archive footage.

I just wish more credit was given to the people who spent years in the field doing the research. Very little in even the BBC blockbuster series is "new" apart from the footage. The most interesting parts of the BBC "Life..." series are the short films put together showing how things were done.

Simon King being a cameraman has been there (though like so many presenters he is related by blood or marriage to a BBC producer). The likes of Alan Titchmarsh and Kate Humble could be performing in front of a blue screen for all the credibility they have in these parts.

Oh dear. I fear I must have gotten out of bed on the wrong side this morning...

Dan Salter · #17 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 01:39 PM

So are we saying Julia Bradbury does not actually do the whole walks on Wainwrights walks?......i like to think she does but who knows eh?...

I agree with others though...a lot of these docs would be totally unrealistic (and would never really happen in terms of insurance risk for top celebs) if the presenters/celebs really DID do everything we were led to believe?

However i reckon there are exceptions...i think Julia does do the whole walks in wainwrights....and maybe Gryff DID complete a lot of the climbs in Mountain? oh and there is no doubt that fella did climb that face in the recent new species expedition thing in the jungle?

One thing i cannot stand though which happens all the time is the fake ...whats the word?...juxtaposed or something...with presenters in jeeps etc...linking to an act that has clearly already happened.

an example would be that bloomin big cat diaries type program....the presenter in a jeep suddenly erupts into excitement with bins up to eyes..."oh look...whats...wow....the females off...shes running...shes gonna get that gazelle"..(none of which we see except a presenter 'acting')...then it cuts to stock footage....or pre recorded footage taken earlier (and then tipped off to the presenter so they know how to word what happened)....urggggh makes me sick...its ok for kids tv but not adult documentaries...we are not daft!

Kev-B · #18 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 07:22 PM

I don't wish to sound cynical .. but at the end of the day, no matter who we're talking about .. no matter how knowledgeable or physically fit they may be .. these people are doing exactly what they're being paid for ... they're "Presenters" ..

I would doubt that any of them would willingly take risks which might cut short a very lucrative career .. doing a job which many people would give their right arms for the chance to do ..

Bye for now ..

Kev ..

Rob T · #19 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 09:11 PM

[quote=Dan Salter;....urggggh makes me sick...its ok for kids tv but not adult documentaries...we are not daft![/QUOTE]

Well I am Dan I think theyre great, but. . . . SOOTY. . . now there's something funny going on there, why do you never see his legs ?

Regards

Rob

ChrisJB · #20 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Ford

It's the same with Nicholas Crane (of the 'Coast' series). A recent programme about Scotland, was claimed to have the shown the classic walk through the Lairig Ghru. The programme only showed the beginning, up to the Pools of Dee, and the end at Derry Lodge.

I reckon Nick Crane did the Rothiemurchs end, nipped round by 4x4 to the Linn 'o Dee via Granton on Spey, Wade's Military road to Tomintoul and Braemar. Then up the track to Derry Lodge to finish filming. They totally missed out 2/3rds of the route with the most spectacular and dramatic scenery, including this bit:

Jim

An interesting thread this. However, having read 'Clear Waters Rising' and 'Two Degrees West', I am well aware of Nick Crane's walking capabilities and whether or not he did the full Lairig Ghru, after reading these two, I aint going to knock the bloke on this score.

Regards, Chris

Jim Ford · #21 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisJB

I am well aware of Nick Crane's walking capabilities and whether or not he did the full Lairig Ghru, after reading these two, I aint going to knock the bloke on this score.

I guess I'm only 'knocking' Nick Crane for the deception. I'm sure he could walk through the Lairig Ghru, but I'm not so sure that the usual supporting crew with equipment could. It's a long hard days trek through to Derry Lodge (and you _really_ don't want to have to spend the night in the Corrour bothy). There are also three nasty boulder fields to negotiate and it's bad enough doing them with a rucksac, let alone with sound and video equipment.

Jim

naturegirl · #22 (**permalink**) 08-09-2008, 10:56 PM

Well I really like Simon King!!

Like Kayleigh said, he can help me into (or out of!!

) my party frock anytime!!!

Naturegirl

Dan Salter · #23 (**permalink**) 09-09-2008, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naturegirl

Well I really like Simon King!!

Like Kayleigh said, he can help me into (or out of!!

) my party frock anytime!!!

Naturegirl

Can the mods send a warning to these two ladies?...this is a family site after all (or so i keep getting warned in pm) ha ha