Creationist museum - what do you think?

[Ukwildlifeo]

I just read that the new multi-million dollar creationist musuem in the states has just passed the 100,000 vistor mark. I anyone else worried about the effect this is having on the population of the worlds most powerful country? And being what happens in the states usually happens over here in 10 years...

[Amiguru]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

I just read that the new multi-million dollar creationist musuem in the states has just passed the 100,000 vistor mark. I anyone else worried about the effect this is having on the population of the worlds most powerful country? And being what happens in the states usually happens over here in 10 years...

I don't think that, as a nation, we are as gullible. If in doubt, read Richard Dawkins works 'The Ancestor's Tale' and 'The God Delusion'.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by Amiguru

I don't think that, as a nation, we are as gullible. If in doubt, read Richard Dawkins works 'The Ancestor's Tale' and 'The God Delusion'.

The problem is these people think richard dawkins is satan himself! lol. Mind you, you have a point about us being less gulable. I seem to remember the UK intellegent design (creationism dressed up as a 'science') people sending out packs to schools, which only two said they would use, and one then said they would use it as an example of poor science! lol

[Gaina]

I think going into that museum with the correct frame of mind would be quite interesting, but I have always enjoyed viewing subject from all angles .

I'm very much opposed to teaching creationism in schools as the 'be-all and end-all' but I don't have a problem with creationism and evolution being presented to older students (15+) impartially as ideas. Beyond that a person has to decide what feels right to them.

It's when people aren't content to 'live and let live' and start attempting to convert or belittle those who don't think like they do that the problems start.

[StuartDH]

Just adding a quick note to say that we don't usually allow threads about religion (i'm sure it used to be in the rules, but can't see it at the moment) and we ask that all political discussions be kept relatively light-hearted. Please be mindful of the possible beliefs of other members or we'll have to remove the thread.

Thanks

Stu

[rscott74]

I've noted in the UK that a number of the 'academies' are financed and run by organisations which might support creationism so we shouldn't be complacent.

[Dark_One]

Having read up on some of the reviews and seen pictures of the "exhibits" I wonder at the use of the term museum. Themepark might be more appropriate.
Having said that, it doesn't require an understanding of evolution or geophysics to enjoy the natural environment and want to help protect it.

[Ukwildlifeo]

Originally Posted by Dark_One

Themepark might be more appropriate.

Ive heard it described as a 'poor mans disneyland' Theres a model showing children playing with a T Rex youngster - i spose its of the seconds before it disembowels them lol. Then again there is a theory that is told as the truth in the musuem, in regards to all animals being vegetarian - T Rex used its big teeth to...wait for it.....crack open coconuts! I dont mean to ridicule other peoples beliefs but thats not even creationism, its just really, really, really bad science. I just feel sorry for the poor kids being brainwashed in these places!

And as stu says lets keep things light hearted!

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by rscott74

I've noted in the UK that a number of the 'academies' are financed and run by organisations which might support creationism so we shouldn't be complacent.

Worse, some of them actually teach it and get government funding to do so.
For those who talk about 'creationism' and 'intelligent design' as "bad science" - don't! It is not science but anti-science and should not be mentioned in the same context as objective sciences. Creationism is a belief system and should be indoctrinated in privacy or places of worship - it has no place in education.

[Little Firewall]

Brilliant idea. Glad it has been so popular.

[wyevilla]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

For those who talk about 'creationism' and 'intelligent design' as "bad science" - don't! It is not science but anti-science and should not be mentioned in the same context as objective sciences. Creationism is a belief system and should be indoctrinated in privacy or places of worship - it has no place in education.

Well said, Paul. I couldn't agree more.

[Jez]

And definatley an ism. so fair put

[Little Firewall]

Originally Posted by Little Firewall

Brilliant idea. Glad it has been so popular.

Here is the link to the Creation Museum forgot to add it the other day.

www.creationmuseum.org

[jnb]

The only reason that creationists get away with propounding these views is that people give them special consideration because they do not want to be seen to be criticising anyone's religious views. Well if they want to be considered as scientists then they must allow themselves to be judged by the standards of science regardless of their personal faith and by those standards what they are suggesting is irrational nonsense.

[Ukwildlifeo]

With some displays showing Adam's children playing with T Rex babies and saying T Rex used its huge knife shaped teeth to crack open coconuts I'm starting to wonder if the large number of people going is due to the comic value rather than people believing this nonsense. What worries me is the young and easily influenced being seduced by the animatronic dinosaurs and fancy effects in films in their cinema.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Ukwildlifeo

T Rex used its huge knife shaped teeth to crack open coconuts .

you mean they don't but ive been feeding my pet Trex, he lives at the bottom of my garden, a coconut based diet for years

[Paul mabbott]

Do you grow your own coconuts? I've had to feed our T. rex with hazels. They're rather stunted (the dinosaurs, not the nuts) but, I can't explain it, we've had very few squirrels around here lately. Presumably the T. rex have eaten all the nuts and the squirrels have been unable to survive for lack of food?

Originally Posted by eeyore

you mean they don't but ive been feeding my pet Trex, he lives at the bottom of my garden, a coconut based diet for years

[Paul mabbott]

Isn't Trex a lard substitute? Or lard? Where do you get it nowadays?

Originally Posted by eeyore

feeding my pet Trex, he lives at the bottom of my garden, a coconut based diet for years

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by jnb

The only reason that creationists get away with propounding these views is that people give them special consideration because they do not want to be seen to be criticising anyone's religious views.

Quite so, not the sort of consideration that the religious show when burning people at the stake, suicide-bombing hospitals or shelling schools. Still, they are at a primitive level of mental evolution so we shouldn't ask too much of them? Perhaps just a little tolerance, perhaps?

In the meantime, it's critically important to differentiate between belief/religion and science/logic. I don't give a damn () what religiasts believe, I will only respond to facts and logical inferences - religion and science are simply not talking about the same thing and, certainly, religious prejudices should not be allowed to enter any sphere of political decision-making or management.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

Do you grow your own coconuts? I've had to feed our T. rex with hazels. They're rather stunted (the dinosaurs, not the nuts) but, I can't explain it, we've had very few squirrels around here lately. Presumably the T. rex have eaten all the nuts and the squirrels have been unable to survive for lack of food?

Our dino food is brought in by the faries that also live at the bottom of the garden - i presume they fly to the caribean during the hours of darkness.

As to the squirells you are lucky that the population has dropped off as our T rex has hybridised with the local squirels to produce a furry predator tyranosaurus careolinis which can climb and has unfeasibly large teeth - I'm hoping that this new species doesnt spread through the woodlands of the uk

[Paul mabbott]

No, you're being silly - everyone knows that fairies can only fly in the daytime ....

Originally Posted by eeyore

Our dino food is brought in by the faries that also live at the bottom of the garden - i presume they fly to the caribean during the hours of darkness.

As to the squirells you are lucky that the population has dropped off as our T rex has hybridised with the local squirels to produce a furry predator tyranosaurus careolinis which can climb and has unfeasibly large teeth - I'm hoping that this new species doesnt spread through the woodlands of the uk

[Paul mabbott]

Good to see that the (US) American Ecological Society has come out with a response clearly demonstrating why 'creation' beliefs and 'science' cannot be legitimately used together!

The self-styled 'creation scientists' start of with a belief then seek out facts which can be interpreted as 'proving' it .... scientists, however, start from a null hypothesis - a theory suggests itself (from observation) so you do tests or make observations to show that your proposal is wrong. If you cannot disprove your theory then you carry on it with more experiments/observations - and you refer to your proposal as a hypothesis - while it works, it is useful and useable but never an absolute certainty .... Science is one of the few aspects of human endeavour where people will never make definitive, conclusive, absolute statements ... a contrast to other people ....

ESA Online Journals - A Response to The Institute of Creation Research

[RobSutton]

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

The self-styled 'creation scientists' start of with a belief then seek out facts which can be interpreted as 'proving' it .... scientists, however, start from a null hypothesis - a theory suggests itself (from observation) so you do tests or make observations to show that your proposal is wrong. If you cannot disprove your theory then you carry on it with more experiments/observations - and you refer to your proposal as a hypothesis - while it works, it is useful and useable but never an absolute certainty .... Science is one of the few aspects of human endeavour where people will never make definitive, conclusive, absolute statements ... a contrast to other people ....

Very few students coming through our education system will have any real idea of what being a scientist means - even those doing A-levels/Degrees in sciences. Science is a way of thinking that, sadly, too few people ever get exposed to and consequently are ill prepared to make judgments on the relative merits of the arguments about creationism - Richard Dawkins has just done a US tour - would have been interesting to be a fly on the wall.