Shelter for Frog Hibernation- advice, please

[jaelen]

Hello, all- we've been busy today trying to build a impromptu shelter for any frogs in the garden to use to hibernate in over winter, (after seeing the prices online for the things, I thought it better to make use of some scrap timber that way lying about doing nothing. )

I've taken some photos of what we've accomplished so far... and I'm planning on covering it over with some short but stout branches from when we pruned back in the spring, to give it a bit more insulation.

I'm concerned about the entrance- how big should it be? We have several VERY determined cats living around us, and I want to make it too small for them to get into to, but not too small for any toads or frogs who decide to make use of it. Also, wanted to be sure we've put enough leaves, etc. on top of it- I read that when this rots down it helps to keep the shelter warm.
Any words of advice welcome- I wanted to get it ready before winter sets in to give the frogs a chance to become accustomed to it being there.

[EdinburghBob]

Oh I have made one for my wildlife garden. I got inspired to do it due to the fact our garden has been landscaped due to it looking like the 1980's has vomited concrete and bad brickwork all over the garden. I learned alot from PondGuru on youtube here is a link to the particular video where he beigns to talk about it. I have read and found out that frogs like tight fits when it comes to their hibernation so pack the thing full of stones and soil and leaves and twigs and then cats wont be able to get to them.


Here is the link . How to Build a Wildlife Pond: Part 5 - Installing a Dipping Platform and Hibernaculum - YouTube

[davecatt]

The hibernaculum in the video is not suitable for frogs or toads,its far too dry and warm for a cold blooded amphibian,all the guy is doing is creating a rockery with holes and cavities suitable for warm blooded animals such as mice or rats. If he'd made some of holes a bit larger they might have provided shelter for Hedgehogs

The best hibernaculum for amphibians would be a hole in the ground about a couple of foot deep, covering much the same area as his heap of soil and rubble,along side the pond and and planted as you would a bog garden ie very wet with loads of vegetation.

Frogs are cold blooded and hibernate either at the bottom of ponds or in muddy ditches. The only way to create a suitable artificial hibernation site is to mimmic their natural habitat,mud and rotting vegetation.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by jaelen

I'm concerned about the entrance- how big should it be? We have several VERY determined cats living around us, and I want to make it too small for them to get into to, but not too small for any toads or frogs who decide to make use of it. Also, wanted to be sure we've put enough leaves, etc. on top of it- I read that when this rots down it helps to keep the shelter warm.
Any words of advice welcome- I wanted to get it ready before winter sets in to give the frogs a chance to become accustomed to it being there.

Firstly it is important that you reduce the entrace size as this is a bit to big in my opinion and will cause too much temerature fluctuation within the chamber. Secondly the chamber size from what I can see is a bit open. Frogs and most other terrestrially hibernating amphibians like tight gaps with small air pockets. It would be best to create mini-chambers inside this and losely fill them with leaves and other debris. It needs to be on well drained ground (but the interior can be damp) and would be better with the enterance facing south/or into an sheltered location, not north or west. I would personally build a log pile over this and position the logs in a way that allows access to gaps going deep into the centre of the pile. This will eventually rot becoming even better, then its simply a case of adding more logs each year.

Originally Posted by davecatt

The hibernaculum in the video is not suitable for frogs or toads,its far too dry and warm for a cold blooded amphibian.

The pond is awful from a wildlife perspective however there is nothing wrong with the hibernacula. As long as its not hot or in a state of complete dessication they will survive. Very wet conditions are potentially fatal to terrestrially hibernating amphibians too.

Originally Posted by davecatt

The best hibernaculum for amphibians would be a hole in the ground about a couple of foot deep, covering much the same area as his heap of soil and rubble,along side the pond and and planted as you would a bog garden ie very wet with loads of vegetation.

A very wet hole is likely to damage any amphibian within it. When they hibernate in a fossorial location it is almost always within a small mammal burrow in a bank, or occassionally in cracks or lose soil. The best hibernacula can be underground but in a drained area, but damp area. I find frogs inparticular hibernate more above ground in dense leaf litter, log piles, under logs, within tree stumps etc as these are damp. Whearas toads tend to hibernate more in small mammal burrows and cracks in banks as they are less dependent on damp conditions.

Originally Posted by davecatt

Frogs are cold blooded and hibernate either at the bottom of ponds or in muddy ditches. The only way to create a suitable artificial hibernation site is to mimmic their natural habitat,mud and rotting vegetation.

About half the population of male frogs hibernate within the muds at the bases of ponds, rarely ditches unless they are over 70cm deep. The number of male frogs doing this flucutates depending on winter temereatures over previous years. The female and rest of the male population hibernate on land within leaf little, under logs, under thick grass tussocks, holes in banks, within rubble and other sheltered damp habitats (usually) within tree/shrub cover.

[Billabong Karen]

I think the best and easiest solution is to provide log piles, compost heap, and piles of rocks. This way, all the hibernating creatures can find their own homes...

[jaelen]

Thanks so much for all your responses!

Bob- I'll have to have a watch of that video; I could always do with some extra tips for around the pond as well... and I did put more vegetation, ferns, and loose soil in it today.

I've narrowed the opening, and have started to put some old logs on top of it as well... we don't have many in our garden, but when we next go for a walk in the woods near us I'll keep an eye open for any good bits of rotten pieces small enough to be carried back- along with some leaves, too.

I understand totally what you mean, Karen- it would be preferable if it were as natural as possible, but unfortunately we're in a shared house... so other people use the garden, too- and they are not quite as keen as wildlife as we are. I have to try and make things look a bit 'tidy', if possible.

I'll try and get a photo up tomorrow of how it looks now... the BF said that even if no frogs use it, something else is bound to; and if anyone notices it and asks 'what is that cave doing in the garden?' I'm going to say it's where our fairies live.

[~T~]

Originally Posted by EdinburghBob

Oh I have made one for my wildlife garden. I got inspired to do it due to the fact our garden has been landscaped due to it looking like the 1980's has vomited concrete and bad brickwork all over the garden. I learned alot from PondGuru on youtube here is a link to the particular video where he beigns to talk about it. I have read and found out that frogs like tight fits when it comes to their hibernation so pack the thing full of stones and soil and leaves and twigs and then cats wont be able to get to them.


Here is the link . How to Build a Wildlife Pond: Part 5 - Installing a Dipping Platform and Hibernaculum - YouTube

The same pond guru that posts vids about wanting to shoot anything that threatens his beloved fish including otters and herons

Agreen with what others have said with making it a lot less open. Amphibians can easily squeeze through tiny gaps.

[Tringa]

I think the shelters you have provided will help some creatures to survive the winter, some of which may be frogs, but I do not frogs they need any help.

Since we put the pond in our garden frogs are very common. I think most sit out the winter at the bottom of the pond without any problems.

Dave

[Billabong Karen]

Originally Posted by jaelen

Thanks so much for all your responses!

Bob- I'll have to have a watch of that video; I could always do with some extra tips for around the pond as well... and I did put more vegetation, ferns, and loose soil in it today.

I've narrowed the opening, and have started to put some old logs on top of it as well... we don't have many in our garden, but when we next go for a walk in the woods near us I'll keep an eye open for any good bits of rotten pieces small enough to be carried back- along with some leaves, too.

I understand totally what you mean, Karen- it would be preferable if it were as natural as possible, but unfortunately we're in a shared house... so other people use the garden, too- and they are not quite as keen as wildlife as we are. I have to try and make things look a bit 'tidy', if possible.

I'll try and get a photo up tomorrow of how it looks now... the BF said that even if no frogs use it, something else is bound to; and if anyone notices it and asks 'what is that cave doing in the garden?' I'm going to say it's where our fairies live.

They'll think you're away with the fairies then, Jaelen!

[jaelen]

Ok- photo of the just-about finished shelter. I've been acquiring bits of logs to go on top; and I've put quite a lot of vegetation, rotten pieces of bark, moss and leaves inside, too. It will get more logs as we find them!

It has now been officially designated as "Toad Hole".



Karen, they KNOW I'm away with the fairies!