Mystery Amphibian

[45596Bahamas]

I work as an engineer in the water industry. One advantage of this job is the opportunities to see wildlife. Often when visiting underground pumping stations one encounters frogs and toads (I recently worked in a sewage sump near Halifax which must have contained at least a thousand, they can't get out but seem to have enough food etc to thrive in total darkness), and occaisionally Newts, but today whilst clearing a blockage in a sewage pump on the Wirral Peninsular I found a creature which has got me beat.
At first I thought it was a newt but quickly decided not, the body was thin and flattish about 4 inches long, with very weak looking legs, almost vestigial, quite widely spaced (one pair right behind the head, the hind ones about 3 inches back) with webbed feet, the head and eyes were newt-like but the tail was about 3 inches long, string like with no crest or ridge and coiled up at the end. The upper body was black (really black) and the underside orangey-grey with dark spots like a newt.
Unfortunately I did not have a camera with me, and as the animal was alive I placed it in a damp spot near water where it might have a chance of survival, after half an hour it had moved under some leaves so I left it there.
It was certainly not a newt so I'm thinking some kind of salamander, any suggestions?
Thanks

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by 45596Bahamas

I work as an engineer in the water industry. One advantage of this job is the opportunities to see wildlife. Often when visiting underground pumping stations one encounters frogs and toads (I recently worked in a sewage sump near Halifax which must have contained at least a thousand, they can't get out but seem to have enough food etc to thrive in total darkness), and occaisionally Newts, but today whilst clearing a blockage in a sewage pump on the Wirral Peninsular I found a creature which has got me beat.
At first I thought it was a newt but quickly decided not, the body was thin and flattish about 4 inches long, with very weak looking legs, almost vestigial, quite widely spaced (one pair right behind the head, the hind ones about 3 inches back) with webbed feet, the head and eyes were newt-like but the tail was about 3 inches long, string like with no crest or ridge and coiled up at the end. The upper body was black (really black) and the underside orangey-grey with dark spots like a newt.
Unfortunately I did not have a camera with me, and as the animal was alive I placed it in a damp spot near water where it might have a chance of survival, after half an hour it had moved under some leaves so I left it there.
It was certainly not a newt so I'm thinking some kind of salamander, any suggestions?
Thanks

it could potentially be a salamander, but have you come across terrestrial phase great crested newts before? because they can look quite salamandery and they are much bigger than the more common newt species, yours sounds like it could be a great crested, when on land the crest is not obvious and some say it's even re-absorbed into the body at this time, they are indeed black (really black) with an orange belly....

I Worked on a job in Aldeburgh and when we opened the housing to a valve on the existing sewer pipeline, there were lots of smooth newts and a few frogs and toads too! They must have fallen in through the tiny key holes when young - amazing to think how many must walk over the surface for so many to fall in! (though they may actually be drawn to the hole as a refuge).

You did the right thing by the way, it's about now that they are tinking about moving to ponds to breed so it will probably be following such instincts in no time.

[45596Bahamas]

Thanks for your reply,
It could have been a terrestrial phase newt, but it just didn't look like one, I've seen them before and the tail with a spiral curl on the end didn't look right. However your comment about opening up a valve chamber struck a chord, I once did this at a site in Garstang and found half a dozen large frogs, sitting in there starving, they were all very emaciated and looked nothing like normal frogs, so perhaps this was a newt that had been trapped for a while and had lost all its body fat, hence the thin body and legs and whip tail, anyway, I hope it survives, thanks a lot.

[yellowhammer]

Sounds weird! The only British newt with webbed feet is the palmate newt, and then only the males, only on the rear set and only in the breeding season. Palmates don't get that big and aren't black. The size and colour suggest great crested newt (and they are crestless in the terrestrial phase) but the tail isn't right. Here are a couple of terrestrial GCN:





The only other thing it sounds like it could be is a spectacled salamander Salamandrina terdigitata, which matches your description and often curls it's tail, except it doesn't have webbed feet. Have a google and see what you think.

My only other thought - and this is thinking waaaaay outside the box - is it could be a GCN that has been regurgitated by a grass snake. It's surprising how long prey items can live inside a snake (i've found frogs alive 24 hours after being eaten), potentially long enough for digestion to start. I wouldn't hold your breath on it being this though!

[aeshna5]

Intriguing! As yellowhammer says Palmate Newts are our only native newt with webbed feet but are smaller than your beastie. Guess it could be some exotic that's escaped or deliberately released- it's amazing how many such species are out there; I know there are populations of Alpine Newt in places, though this wouldn't be your species.