Frogs and mysteries

[Feverfew]

Hi everyone, I have joined the forum to get some advice on frogs in my garden.

I read the item on frozen frogs with great interest. In December, my pond, which is about 4 foot deep, froze. I don't know if it froze all the way to the bottom or not, but I was breaking the ice every few days. To my horror, one day I broke the ice and about 8 large, apparently dead frogs floated out from a cranny. I threw these frogs away, only to be told later they were probably hibernating so I felt terrible.

Over the next few months, I found a couple of dead frogs floating on the top on the pond (which had melted) so I also disposed of them. This weekend, the pond smelled terrible and rotten so I am afraid I took the plunge and emptied it completely. To my dismay, I discovered three very dead very pregannt females on the bottom, and one live frog (not pregnant). The females looked as if they had been dead a long time.

What I am wondering now is: what caused the frogs to die? were the females this year's spawn-bearing females and does this mean there will be no frogs this year? But most importantly, what should I be doing to ensure the frogs survive the winter next year, and how can I keep my pond pleasant and reasonably smelling? Should I net it to stop leaves going in, or will this create an imbalance? I know I should use rainwater to fill it up but I'm afraid I didn't have any and used tapwater instead.

All help much appreciated.

[Kayleigh]

Hi and welcome,

I think the pregnant females could be from last year its quiet common for them to be drown in the mating frenzy.
It will not affect the breeding this year..
As for the water quality just make sure there are enough plants and oxygenators in it.
Yellow flag iris help filter the water.
If you can get a water butt it will help if you can catch rain water but sometimes there is no alternative to tap water if that's all is available but its not ideal.

[Feverfew]

Originally Posted by Kayleigh

Hi and welcome,

I think the pregnant females could be from last year its quiet common for them to be drown in the mating frenzy.
It will not affect the breeding this year..
As for the water quality just make sure there are enough plants and oxygenators in it.
Yellow flag iris help filter the water.
If you can get a water butt it will help if you can catch rain water but sometimes there is no alternative to tap water if that's all is available but its not ideal.

Thasnk you for the welcome Kayleigh and the information. I will be very relieved if they are last year's females, that's cheered me up!

I havce got waterbutts, just they don't contain enough water at present to fill the pond. I have got blue iris in a bog garden which surrounds the pond, but definitely need more plants in the pond itself, if you have other suggestions as well as the flag iris - I tried a small lilly, but it did not survive being completely submerged, asnd I did not want to clutter the bottom of the pond with bricks etc for the basket to stand on.

[Littlesparrow]

Hi Feverfew,I was the frozen frog thread starter, and I'm sure some of my dead ones were females. The good news is that a couple of frogs have been seen in my pond over the last couple of days, which must have hibernated away from the pond so there is some hope for spawn this year.
I had lots of helpful suggestions in my thread including add some more oxygen making plants. I have been thinking about how to keep the leaves from blowing in, but birds also use the pond to drink from, so I think it would have to be something I would use only on windy days or as protection on very cold days.

[nightshade]

I think "last years" gravid females would have decomposed Very Quickly
I don't often get dead frogs in the pond except during or within a few days of the spawning. When my pond starts to ice up (but before any thick ice)
I top up the pond an inch or so more than necessary let the hard ice form then drain some water to leave a two inch or so gap the small drain hole acts as a vent the top ice as a crude insulation. It has always worked for me, but you must watch your charges (the pond and its occupants) fairly regularly.
The pump runs all year so there is running water for birds to bathe, which is very important, clean feathers make better duvets

[~T~]

Originally Posted by Feverfew

Hi everyone, I have joined the forum to get some advice on frogs in my garden.

I read the item on frozen frogs with great interest. In December, my pond, which is about 4 foot deep, froze. I don't know if it froze all the way to the bottom or not, but I was breaking the ice every few days. To my horror, one day I broke the ice and about 8 large, apparently dead frogs floated out from a cranny. I threw these frogs away, only to be told later they were probably hibernating so I felt terrible.

Over the next few months, I found a couple of dead frogs floating on the top on the pond (which had melted) so I also disposed of them. This weekend, the pond smelled terrible and rotten so I am afraid I took the plunge and emptied it completely. To my dismay, I discovered three very dead very pregannt females on the bottom, and one live frog (not pregnant). The females looked as if they had been dead a long time.

What I am wondering now is: what caused the frogs to die? were the females this year's spawn-bearing females and does this mean there will be no frogs this year? But most importantly, what should I be doing to ensure the frogs survive the winter next year, and how can I keep my pond pleasant and reasonably smelling? Should I net it to stop leaves going in, or will this create an imbalance? I know I should use rainwater to fill it up but I'm afraid I didn't have any and used tapwater instead.

All help much appreciated.

Remember a pond is basically a stagnant body of water or if filtered then a a partially stagnant body of water. When something dies it causes pollution as the body decomposes and the smaller the pond the worse the pollution will be. Yes other animals will feed on casualties but more likely other animals will be affected. So frogs that are hibernating at at risk for a start but coupled with thick ice preventing oxygen/co2 exchange for long periods of time and pollution from dead frogs you are looking at a vicious cycle of death. The only way to stop this or at least minimise it is to keep the an area ice free and remove any casualties as soon as possible (again that also causes a problem as hibernating frogs and dead frogs may be difficult to tell apart just by looking...you have to sniff them).

[nightshade]

Perhaps I missed the clue the first time;
"I was breaking the ice every few days. To my horror, one day I broke the ice and about 8 large, apparently dead frogs ........."
Breaking ice can create a pressure wave that will harm Fish and Amphibs.
stunning them even killing them, make a hole with hot water or a _battery_ drill and cutter.

[Feverfew]

Thanks everyone, very useful so glad I came here. When the pond was first installed, it was always bright, clean and healthy and it is only his year things have gone awry. I have got a filter for a small waterfall, but turned it off during the winter - a few people have said I should leave it running.

One problem with it being relatively deep is actually placing the plant baskets on the bottom and getting them to stay put - they and the filter tend to float upwards, even though the filter has rubber suckers on thbe bottom, which seem pretty useless!

Also, am I right in thinking there are plants that will grow completely submerged in the water? Whren I got the lily I thought it would need light and therefore had to balance the basket on bricks etc, which took up a lot of space on the pond bottom, and it had a tendency to fall over.

Sorry I am going off topic a bit, but tips on actually planting up the pond would be useful too.

[nightshade]

I used 4" brown soil pipes, big zip ties, and 10" paving slabs. zip tie tubes to slabs. Do some bottom mapping, then using ropes lower into pond where appropriate. The tubes are ok with the liner and their profile helps with any unevenness and shelters fish or amphibs. I screwed and rawlplugged my pump to a similar set up(you could just zip tie it to a piece of slab or a brick depending on the size of the pump.
Thats two ropes and two people one each side

[Tursiops2]

Originally Posted by ~T~

Remember a pond is basically a stagnant body of water or if filtered then a a partially stagnant body of water.

Not strictly true. "Stagnant" means "deoxygenated"; wildlife ponds which have plenty of submerged, oxygenating plants should not become stagnant. A pump/filter should only be necessary if you have fish in the pond, and fish are not really compatible with wildife.

For a list of native plants suitable for wildlife ponds, including oxygenating plants, download NE27 from Natural England: NE27 - Garden ponds and boggy areas: havens for wildlife
T2