frog behaviour

[suntrecker]

errrr......new to this site and would like to ask a question about the frogs behaviour in our small pond. The one small frog is holding onto the very large frog around her head and they are always under the water on the bottom of the pond. They have been on the bottom of the pond all week and only move if they see me. Yes I know they could be mating but I would have thought that happends in the early spring but .......I do not know how to put this...the small frog is not making 'conctact' as he is not as long as the large one. Maybe he dose not realize this fact but this happend last year and the large one died so.....I hope I do not sound too nieve and I do feel a little silly asking.

[Putorius]

Hi Suntrecker,


I`ll start by responding to the last sentence of your post.

Originally Posted by suntrecker

....I do feel a little silly asking.

You have absolutely no need to "feel silly asking". It`s great that you have shown an interest and asked. There is no such thing as a silly question if it`s wildlife related. The truth being that we have very few answers to the many questions that are unavoidably invoked by a fascination with wildlife. We have barely scratched the surface, so ask away.

Originally Posted by suntrecker

errrr......new to this site and would like to ask a question about the frogs behaviour in our small pond. The one small frog is holding onto the very large frog around her head and they are always under the water on the bottom of the pond.

When you say "around her head", are both animals facing the same way? Are they in "piggy back" formation like this;



If so, then the animals are in "Amplexus". Amplexus is the term used to describe the spawning embrace, but it is not actual mating as I will explain in due course.

Originally Posted by suntrecker

They have been on the bottom of the pond all week and only move if they see me. Yes I know they could be mating but I would have thought that happends in the early spring ....

It is certainly not the normal time of year for frogs to be spawning, but recent mild weather may have caused this behaviour. There have been numerous reports up and down the country pertaining to irregular breeding activity in recent years. Recently, male common frogs have been reported as calling at times of the year that I have not previously experienced in 40 years of frog watching. Whereabouts in the country are you? Has it been especially mild following a cold spell?

Originally Posted by suntrecker

I do not know how to put this...the small frog is not making 'conctact' as he is not as long as the large one.

This is typical of the species. Males are generally smaller than females. Amphibians do not copulate. Males do not possess a penis. Fertilisation is external just like in the case of fish. Amplexus, the "piggy back" hold, is merely an embrace. What purpose does it serve? The male is basically waiting for the female to release her spawn and is conveniently situated to synchronise the release of sperm with the appearance of the spawn and so fertilise the spawn externally, in the water.

Originally Posted by suntrecker

Maybe he dose not realize this fact but this happend last year and the large one died

Did it happen at the same time of year? It is not unlikely that the female has not yet developed spawn. The "confused" male will not release his grip until the female has released spawn. As spawn is not likely to be released, the male is not likely to release his grip. Unless the pair becomes seperated in some way or other, the female is likely to die of a combination of stress, exhaustion and oxygen deprivation.

Deaths are far from uncommon among females especially at the conventional spawning time of February/March. One of the disadvantages of the explosive breeding strategy* is that multiple males can on occasion cause "spawning knots", ie; several males will attempt amplexus with a single female resulting in a rugby scrum effect. The phenomenon is more commonly witnessed among toads. Sometimes, as many as 10 males will attach themselves to a single female. If unable to reach the surface due to the weight of the attached males, a female can drown.







* Described here; Red frog identification

[Dogghound]

Additionally the time of year may be suggestive that its two males, one trying to hibernate one trying to breed. As Putorius suggested they can make mistakes and grab onto anything. Would be interesting to see what sort of sexual condition this small male is in. i.e. if it has developed forelimbs, throat blue colouration to throat and nuptial pad size.

[suntrecker]

Thank you both for the replies and all the information. That was kind of you to take the time and effort to explain to us.
The top frog is facing the same way holding on to her head piggy back fashion. The top one is quite dark in colour while the other one is lighter green but much bigger. It would be a shame to lose one (if we do). We are quite suprised at the size of the big one. What a lovely site to be on, Im so pleased to have come across it. Once again many thanks.

[Dogghound]

Females are usually larger than males, males tend not to grow that big. So in respect to my other post it may be both sexes. Is it grabbing its head or behind its forelegs?

[Putorius]

Hi Dogghound,

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Additionally the time of year may be suggestive that its two males, one trying to hibernate one trying to breed.

Certainly another very likely scenario.

Originally Posted by Dogghound

Would be interesting to see what sort of sexual condition this small male is in. i.e. if it has developed forelimbs, throat blue colouration to throat and nuptial pad size.

Indeed. Suntrecker, would it be possible to get a photograph or two of the pair?

Originally Posted by suntrecker

The top frog is facing the same way holding on to her head piggy back fashion. The top one is quite dark in colour while the other one is lighter green but much bigger.

Following your above description, on this particular occasion I would agree with Dogghound that it is not unlikely that we are dealing with a genuine pair.

Keep us updated please.

[Kayleigh]

Never heard of this behaviour out of the breeding season very strange..

[Kayleigh]

Never heard of this behaviour out of the breeding season very strange..
Are they alive as you said they are at the bottom and they could be a casualty of last seasons breeding..

[Putorius]

Originally Posted by suntrecker

They have been on the bottom of the pond all week and only move if they see me.

They`re alive.

[suntrecker]

Yes I will try to get a photo and post it here, but as I say they dissapear still together when I look in.