Newt ID Please

[sebastianbawn]

Hi all. My brother came across these newts in Somerford yesterday. Can anyone help with an ID please? Also an indication on determining male/female would be great too!

[marvin]

hi

look like smooth newts to me.

tim

[Dogghound]

Palmate Newt for me. Thin central pale orange band, lack of spots on underside, two rows of brown mottled lines on back, bluntish head, three groves in forehead, clear throat. Are all suggestive of this species. Not sure you can sex these though.

[sebastianbawn]

Thanks to both of you. I have compared to Arkives images of a Palmate Newt and I think they are spot on, thanks again

[diggleken]

Hi sb, these are palmates with the orange stopping under the chin and as dogg says.
The way to sex them is easier in breeding season - the male is more spotty, more bolder colours, well marked and has palms on hind feet, with a small tail filament.
I think this is female, but not in egg as not very fat.
they are our smallest newt and tend to be the ones found in upland acidic places like near here, though there is lots of crossover so habitat isnt conclusive at all.
Cheers
Ken

[marvin]

hi again

i think the orange underside stops before the throat on smooth newts also. palmates tend to have duller, yellower bellies and i thought i saw a bit of faint spotting on the belly and throat too. i was basing my id on the assumption that the newts are not adults (tip of tail to nose less than three fingers width in one pic), which i think would make some of the features described less obvious. its a shame there are no pics from directly above as the dorsal stripes on the two species differ significantly in younger individuals. on the one pic where it can be seen (although not clearly) it appears to start in the middle of the head and fade on the trunk where in palmates it would start on the neck and continue in uniform pigmentation along its entire length. however, without a clearer view of the dorsal stripe and confirmation that these are all efts/juveniles they could well be palmates. what was the habitat? if they were found around upland, acidic heath etc that too could imply palmate.

cheers
tim

[sebastianbawn]

I believe it was upland heath area. Unfortunately the other pics I have do not show alot of the dorsal side. But thanks to everyone for their comments and ideas.