Romney marsh frogs

captain nodge · #1 (**permalink**) 24-01-2010, 10:53 AM

Down the road from me is a non natural pond its a good 100ftx300ft, think it was probly made for washing the shingle for ballast, in the summer its a haven for wildlife,, and esp noted for the romney marsh frogs, i heard on the radio that these originated from Hungary, does anyone have more info on this please?
also would they be protected if ( the site is unused at the moment) they began to open up the site for work again?

ta nodge

Ukwildlifeo · #2 (**permalink**) 24-01-2010, 11:14 AM

Yes I believe the original introduction was from Hungary in the 1930s and have since spread by natural and human means around the Kent Marshes and parts of Sussex, Surrey, Essex and London, along with a few other places.

Being an introduced species however they have no protection

captain nodge · #3 (**permalink**) 24-01-2010, 05:20 PM

Thanks u,w.o,thats ashame,ive learned something today makes sense i suppose that if it aint indeginious then it aint protected,may i ask what would need to be there to be protected il reword that, being that it is a little ecosystem by its own merit, this pond being close to a road and next to a sewerage plant plus surrounded by industrial sites, what kind of creatures would have to reside there to protect the site from development?

Dogghound · #4 (**permalink**) 24-01-2010, 05:22 PM

Great Crested Newts be one that would save it. Water voles would also stall development.

captain nodge · #5 (**permalink**) 24-01-2010, 11:50 PM

ok,now they are well protected even i know that(smilee1)also that one needs a licence to handle them,(smilee2) where would they be if present? in the pond itself?apart from actually seeing them are there any other clues that would give there precence away,come the spring,as they would be hibernating now yeah?
water voles are a lot easier to spot i expect,

Ukwildlifeo · #6 (**permalink**) 27-01-2010, 10:06 AM

Its not impossible for there to be marsh Great crested newts in a pond with marsh frogs but their habitat preference is different. Marsh frogs like big reedbed lakes or slightly saline drainage channels where as great crested newts prerfer weedy ponds with no fish. Water voles and Marsh frogs can be found in the same place: in fact they are at Rainham marshes and Elmley Marshes

Dogghound · #7 (**permalink**) 27-01-2010, 10:24 AM

We have a site here with both water vole and great creasted newts. As has been said these newts like a large fish free weedy pond. Usually at least 0.5 meters deep. These newts form metapopulations so when several of these ponds are close you tend to get the highest populations. They will be hibernating now, they hibernate on land so again if there is a dense hedgerow, woodland, wasteland around the site with suitable hibernation sites this would boost the chnces of them being here. They dont really show clues its if you find one.

captain nodge · #8 (**permalink**) 27-01-2010, 10:47 AM

Fantastic pieces of information, just a quik one, do water voles like salt water and brackish water such as in estuarys,i know theres a lot of water rats about here do they co exist with the water voles?
slightly off topic,last summer we had a shock, heard screeching turned around to find a rat had pounced on a small rabbit and was trying to drag it away until i disturbed it from its meal, for some reason i couldnt just watch it, even though it was just nature, anyway the rabbit got away, is that normal for rats to attack like that?

Dogghound · #9 (**permalink**) 27-01-2010, 09:28 PM

Rats can be very bold.

Its highly unlikely that you get water voles in salt water they are restricted to freshwater. Saline conditions dont offer prefered habitat or food. Brown rats and water voles co-exist (they tend not to compete for the same food)in many areas although rats will predate young voles if they have the chance.