Heathland Management

[WW]

Originally Posted by maccyd82

Another thought - if you point out where hibernacula are, they then buldoze it and kill reptiles that would be an offence under Sch 5 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act.

Oh dear SWT youd better start listening to these people!

Precisely. And I am sure the average developer would be fairly unimpressed at the Trusts and Natural England getting away with things that would quite rightly get that same developer prosecuted.

[Al Hyde]

Originally Posted by maccyd82

This is an intersting thread.

I agree with eeyore though, there are planty of other factors involved that could contribute to a decline in reptile populations. The Thames basin heaths areas are all urban fringe, areas of isolated habitat which recieve large numbers of visitors.

That could be said, but not when rapid decline in numbers repeatedly coincides with management. As i've said, what is posted above is only a very small amount of my records, I am busy digging through everything and will post more as soon as is possible

Originally Posted by maccyd82

Certainly the last picture you posted of Brockwood End at Pirbright the area of suitable habitat looks to be very small and isolated, with the railway to the north, road to the west, and no doubt lots of houses too. Id say that any reptile population in such an area doesnt have much of a chance, management or not. There is no opportunty for dispersal, and only room for a small population in a small area.

I lived just round the corner from this piece of land for many years , at the end of connaught road.
There was always a steady number of reptiles every year until management cleared the area and put horses on the land. Instantly nothing, and it has remained that way since

Even if the population was small and unsustainable (Which it wasn't) there is still no excuse for destroying habitat and wiping out that population , as Wolfgang say's management are getting away with practices that any other person would be prosecuted for

Many thanks for your input Maccy

[maccyd82]

So what did they do in this area? It looks from the pic like thees a little pocket of heather surrounded by trees? Did they remove all the heather or somthing?

[Al Hyde]

Hi,
They went in with the machinary , scraped across the whole area and turned it into a field of lumpy soil . They left it barren with just tiny clumps of heather and nothing else. Before it was a diverse little spot with bracken, gorse, heather and grasses
I also have photos of this work in progress, and when finished . I've got alot of discs to go though

[Al Hyde]

Righto, I have started going through all my discs and records and hope to post many more over the next few days.
Here's another one for now

I was extremely concerned about this area and had heard that management would be carrying out work.
So, I went out with my son and two members of the team to cut by hand. However, nearly as soon as we'd finished in came the machines .

This spot is on MOD land and can only be worked certain times of the year (Perhaps this needs to change so as to have a slot in winter?)

The end result wasn't too bad considering it had been done by machines , but yet again what i'm about to say confirms that reptiles do not tollerate the stress of management well while they are active

The area marked in red was rich with 5 species of reptile.My son and I spent less than an hour there one afternoon and saw 24 individual adders. The work removed all birch and once again destroyed the hibernacula (Circled in black)
Every visit since turns up no reptiles whatsoever



More to come

[Al Hyde]

To Confirm that it is management that is the root problem. Walk anywhere outside of the red circle where reptiles were found and they are all still present

[Dave1812]

Its nice to see someone tackling the issues that affect our native reptiles and amphibians, these animals hardly receive any attention as they are not cute and cuddly, are hard to spot, unless you actually go and look for them.

I for one applaud Alan for his work!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Al Hyde

I have invited members of SWT to join me at me sites for two reasons

1- before work is carried out so I can point out hibernacula and areas rich in reptiles

2- after work has already been done so I can show where they have destroyed hibernacula /killed reptiles .

Also, many years after work as they claim that these sites are now rich in wildlife , I know they are not and I would like SWT to show me these invisible creatures.

SWT will probably post here soon with some scientific blah blah about how i'm mis-informed and it's all for the long term effect . Yet they refuse to join me at these sites ,(recently managed and managed years ago) refuse to acknowledge the destruction of hibernacula or deaths of reptiles during work.

I am more than prepared to be proven wrong, but I won't be. Pirbright above is devoid of all life, as is Bisley, The areas mentioned at Ash Ranges ect ect and many many more.

Having worked for wildlife trusts for a lot of my career (though not SWT) I would be amazed if they did not survey before and after - and management is about the long term effect (tho not normally at the expense of total populations in the short term).

Also they have an obligation to manage for all the species present not just reptiles and may have taken the decision to expend some hibernacula as the cost of improving (for example) nesting habitat for nightjars

I would also speculate that the reason they are reluctant to listen to you might have something to do with your attitude. You are sure that you are right and they are wrong despite ( i would guess) their best efforts to explain the rationale behind the work, and here you are slagging them down on the internet ... not really behaviour calculated to make them willing to listen or to take you seriously imho.

[WW]

Originally Posted by eeyore

Also they have an obligation to manage for all the species present not just reptiles and may have taken the decision to expend some hibernacula as the cost of improving (for example) nesting habitat for nightjars

From what I have seen, the interests of nightjars and reptiles coincide reasonably closely. Mature heather with other bushes and the odd clump of trees = nightjars + reptiles; bare, bulldozed Earth, and/or vast herds of cattle, horses or any other ungulate that happens to be convenient for the reserve management on the day (not forgetting a million defecating dogs) = neither.

Also, I would question the legal basis for killing WCA-protected species for the sake of habitat improvement for another.

I would also speculate that the reason they are reluctant to listen to you might have something to do with your attitude. You are sure that you are right and they are wrong despite ( i would guess) their best efforts to explain the rationale behind the work, and here you are slagging them down on the internet ... not really behaviour calculated to make them willing to listen or to take you seriously imho.

So everyone who does happen to have extensive field experience of a group of animals is simply expected to bow to the expertise of those perfect people who manage reserves, and unquestioningly salute their infallible efforts? Never mind the odd sliced and diced smooth snake or adder in a bulldozed hibernaculum, the people in charge surveyed everything, know exactly what they are doing, and it's all for the greater good, right? After all, we all know that the Trusts are rolling in the millions, have specialists for every possible group of organisms on 24/7/365 call, and no single animal or its key microhabitat would ever escape the eagle eyes of their staff, correct? So no mere mortal who spent the last ten or twenty years observing a particular group of animals in a reserve could possibly have anything to contribute, could they now?

Thanks for clarifying, I shall sleep so much better tonight, comforted by the knowledge that our natural heritage is in the hand of infallible experts, and nothing could conceivably be improved.

[Al Hyde]

Eeyore,
I didn't want to pull everything out, but it seems that I will have to post my months of email communication with SWT .
I have been very patient and polite , tried to work WITH them and come to some agreement Privately. (Offered my assistance phone numbers everything possible)
SWT cut me off and refused point blank to accept any of the points raised , then refused to answer any emails.
This sort of thing has gone on for years with other field workers, and unfortunately I was forced to bring it into the light