Cruelty Beggars Belief

[Lance Morgan]

BBC NEWS | Wales | North East Wales | Anger at terrapin firework launch

Sometimes one has to despair with the human race

[The Black Rabbit]

Incredible.
Doug

[mh68]

If thats not a reason to ban firework sales to the public I dont know what is

Mark H

[Wild-Woman]

Originally Posted by mh68

If thats not a reason to ban firework sales to the public I dont know what is

Mark H

Yes I agree.

I can't get my head around the sort of individual capable of doing something like this. How awful.

[naturelover]

i have never heard of anything so cruel,what ever sort of people are they to do such a thing,sadistic,what fun is there in it,they wouldnt have seen the end results anyway,well done there that dog deserves a medal.

[briar rose]

......OMG......what on earth......I'm lost for words, I'd like to strap a rocket to the back of whoever did this and launch them, see if they thinks it's fun, poor little thing, I hope it going to be ok.

[Garden Carpet]

I would like to tape them to a firework!! How anyone could do this beggars belief
jaki

[demicav]

Pets and wildlife really suffer around this time of the year and for those who are already sadistic it gives them some other way to torture innocent animals. I'd do the same thing to them, they're sick people.

[juliejam]

All I can say is what ever next...is there no end to the cruelty that so many animals are suffering..Read this article out to my son his comment was ...how sick are these people..exactly

Julie

[galanthus]

Makes me feel very sad to think there are people who could bring themselves to do this

[bee warrior]

At the risk of being a little deep....There is a great book called "A language older than words" by Derrick Jensen, in this book he describes how our actions on the outside reflect what is going on the inside-a psychotherapist would no doubt agree with this too.

Yes, this is intolerable cruelty and I abhor it. But I dont think we will never stop it unless as a society we deal with a culture that is largely disconnected from the land and nature and as such disrespects and continually devalues the natural world. Im sure most people would like to see the perpetrator punished but that would be... as they call it, an 'end-of-pipe' solution which would help all of us feel better, but it would not deal with this persons internal cruelty or a society that nurtured it.

If you have not read the book I recommend it - difficult to read in parts for its brutal honesty but very thought provoking!

A recent report also alludes to this in a food contect and makes a link between childrens lack of countryside experience and lackof knowledge about food-CONCRETE KIDS! If anyone is interested see Farming and Countryside Education - FACE - Year of Food and Farming to Rescue "Concrete Children"

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by bee warrior

At the risk of being a little deep....There is a great book called "A language older than words" by Derrick Jensen, in this book he describes how our actions on the outside reflect what is going on the inside-a psychotherapist would no doubt agree with this too.

Yes, this is intolerable cruelty and I abhor it. But I dont think we will never stop it unless as a society we deal with a culture that is largely disconnected from the land and nature and as such disrespects and continually devalues the natural world. Im sure most people would like to see the perpetrator punished but that would be... as they call it, an 'end-of-pipe' solution which would help all of us feel better, but it would not deal with this persons internal cruelty or a society that nurtured it.

If you have not read the book I recommend it - difficult to read in parts for its brutal honesty but very thought provoking!

A recent report also alludes to this in a food contect and makes a link between childrens lack of countryside experience and lackof knowledge about food-CONCRETE KIDS! If anyone is interested see Farming and Countryside Education - FACE - Year of Food and Farming to Rescue "Concrete Children"

I dont belive that there is any excuse for this kind of cruelty or that it has anything to do with being "disconected from the land" some people are just sick int head.

and to see the incidence used to promote a total irrelevant book shocks me more than words can say

[Cotham Marble]

Originally Posted by bee warrior

But I dont think we will never stop it unless as a society we deal with a culture that is largely disconnected from the land and nature and as such disrespects and continually devalues the natural world.

I grew up 'very connected' to land and nature - as kids we learned that anything that moved was a reasonable target for stone, catapult, arrow, air gun and shot gun, unless that is it had commercial food value in which case it was outside the cross hairs.

Trees were for chopping, bushes for flattening and flowers for kicking - happy days indeed. Of course I brought my kids up differently, they've never held a gun and hopefully have a sense about what cruelty is and how living things have intrinsic value - but then unlike me they've grown up in the city away from rural visciousness.

CM

[solus]

This ad has also been discussed here:
Virgin Media tortoise and rocket advert

Wonder if the ad. gave the brain-dead little neds the idea? Know what I'd like to do to them? Well, I can't say on here but I suspect most of you will have pretty similar ideas!

[paulchandler6]

Quite unbeleivable what some people will do. Sick. Am not lost for words but cannot print them here.

Paul

[bee warrior]

Originally Posted by eeyore

I dont belive that there is any excuse for this kind of cruelty or that it has anything to do with being "disconected from the land" some people are just sick int head.

and to see the incidence used to promote a total irrelevant book shocks me more than words can say

It is certainly not my intention to use such cruelty to promote an irrelevant book (or any book for that matter). I felt the book was very relevant as it informed my opinion, so wanted to share it with anyone interested in similar subject matter; but I am sorry that you are so shocked, I repeat, that was in no way my intention.

I do stand by my email for in my view people are a product of parents, culture and society and it is MY belief that as a society we have become disconnected from nature(which I think can be thought of as the same thing as self) and that this will be magnified through each generation. I believe this is bad and at the root of much of the 'violence' we see against the earth and animals. People are not 'just sick in the head' -that is far too simplistic and convenient. Something happens to make them 'sick in the head' and we all have a part in that.

If you consiously choose to inflict pain on any organism, I believe that person to be mentally unhealthy - and the root of that is parents, society, and culture, and the root of that is parents etc etc. For that reason I think cruelty and violence (against animals, each other, nature) has to be addressed at the macro-level not at that of the individual. We have been locking people up and the rest, for ages and still struggle to realise that we cannot teach non-violence through violence.

How do we hope to make the world a better place with a starting point of 'some people are just sick in the head'? If ever there was, as you call it, an 'excuse for such cruelty' then that is it! It leaves us nowhere to go but to lock them up and wait for the next one, and the next one.... I'm not suggesting perpetrators are not bought to book or that we should not be outraged. But what I would like to suggest (probably not very eloquently) is that we all need to consider what the triggers are that cause another human being to behave in this way, so that we can begin the work needed to make sure it does not keep happening.

[demicav]

Originally Posted by bee warrior

It is certainly not my intention to use such cruelty to promote an irrelevant book (or any book for that matter). I felt the book was very relevant as it informed my opinion, so wanted to share it with anyone interested in similar subject matter; but I am sorry that you are so shocked, I repeat, that was in no way my intention.

I do stand by my email for in my view people are a product of parents, culture and society and it is MY belief that as a society we have become disconnected from nature(which I think can be thought of as the same thing as self) and that this will be magnified through each generation. I believe this is bad and at the root of much of the 'violence' we see against the earth and animals. People are not 'just sick in the head' -that is far too simplistic and convenient. Something happens to make them 'sick in the head' and we all have a part in that.

If you consiously choose to inflict pain on any organism, I believe that person to be mentally unhealthy - and the root of that is parents, society, and culture, and the root of that is parents etc etc. For that reason I think cruelty and violence (against animals, each other, nature) has to be addressed at the macro-level not at that of the individual. We have been locking people up and the rest, for ages and still struggle to realise that we cannot teach non-violence through violence.

How do we hope to make the world a better place with a starting point of 'some people are just sick in the head'? If ever there was, as you call it, an 'excuse for such cruelty' then that is it! It leaves us nowhere to go but to lock them up and wait for the next one, and the next one.... I'm not suggesting perpetrators are not bought to book or that we should not be outraged. But what I would like to suggest (probably not very eloquently) is that we all need to consider what the triggers are that cause another human being to behave in this way, so that we can begin the work needed to make sure it does not keep happening.

While I understand where you are coming from I don't think excuses should be made for this kind of behaviour. I get sick of hearing "oh he had a bad life" or "he was abused by his dad". Thousands of children grow up like this and not all turn out to be criminals. This is becoming a nanny state, too many do gooders and too much of a soft touch. Children need discipline from a young age but don't always get it. If I had my way those that can't parent properly wouldn't be allowed to have kids at all. There's kids having kids and kids beating up old people. I tell you the country has serious problems that need to be rectified. My children get love and discipline and I'm very careful who they mix with but parents are only part of the bigger picture.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by bee warrior

How do we hope to make the world a better place with a starting point of 'some people are just sick in the head'? If ever there was, as you call it, an 'excuse for such cruelty' then that is it! It leaves us nowhere to go but to lock them up and wait for the next one, and the next one.... I'm not suggesting perpetrators are not bought to book or that we should not be outraged. But what I would like to suggest (probably not very eloquently) is that we all need to consider what the triggers are that cause another human being to behave in this way, so that we can begin the work needed to make sure it does not keep happening.

In my opinion the problem is not that we keep locking them up for this sort of thing but that we don't !

If there were clearly defined punishments (more than a slap on the wrist and some counselling) their would be less of this kind of thing - and also of course if we spent more money on police on the streets and less on cctv and pointeless initiatives and thinktanks the asbo fodder wouldnt be hanging arround commiting mayhem anyway

[bee warrior]

There are 2 definitions of excuse, one is given falsely(i.e. trying to get away with it) as a reason for doing something, and the other is a reason given genuinely (wrongly or rightly) for doing something - Im working on the 'excuse' given (rightly or wrongly) for doing something.

Of course not all children who had abusive or violent upbringings abuse animals. Elements of my own childhood were not particularly pleasant and I love animals, nature is what sustains me. I have never abused animals. I am an individual just like everyone else and we all deal with things in different ways.

Perhaps it would be useful to differentiate between psychopaths and damaged people. Psychopaths have no empathy or conscience and perhaps these people cannot be treated-and perhaps they should be locked up and the key thrown away-they are often the same people we have historically voted to run countries.

But perhaps there really are damaged people out there who could be helped and stopped from continuing the cycle of abuse. The perpetrator we are discussing in this thread, I doubt will be locked up for this crime - we do not value non-human life enough. What we will do is wait for him to carry out a crime towards a person (accepting he may grow out of it) and then we will lock him up. He will be let out, having not solved the cause but merely dealt with the symptom and perhaps he will continue with the cycle of abuse and create another victim who will begin by abusing animals. These are not sad stories offered as excuses it is what actually happens!

It would seem there is a very fine line between perpetrator and victim, and one tends to lead to the other. The question is are we locking up victims or perpetrators, indeed is there such a distinction?

[demicav]

Originally Posted by bee warrior

There are 2 definitions of excuse, one is given falsely(i.e. trying to get away with it) as a reason for doing something, and the other is a reason given genuinely (wrongly or rightly) for doing something - Im working on the 'excuse' given (rightly or wrongly) for doing something.

Of course not all children who had abusive or violent upbringings abuse animals. Elements of my own childhood were not particularly pleasant and I love animals, nature is what sustains me. I have never abused animals. I am an individual just like everyone else and we all deal with things in different ways.

Perhaps it would be useful to differentiate between psychopaths and damaged people. Psychopaths have no empathy or conscience and perhaps these people cannot be treated-and perhaps they should be locked up and the key thrown away-they are often the same people we have historically voted to run countries.

But perhaps there really are damaged people out there who could be helped and stopped from continuing the cycle of abuse. The perpetrator we are discussing in this thread, I doubt will be locked up for this crime - we do not value non-human life enough. What we will do is wait for him to carry out a crime towards a person (accepting he may grow out of it) and then we will lock him up. He will be let out, having not solved the cause but merely dealt with the symptom and perhaps he will continue with the cycle of abuse and create another victim who will begin by abusing animals. These are not sad stories offered as excuses it is what actually happens!

It would seem there is a very fine line between perpetrator and victim, and one tends to lead to the other. The question is are we locking up victims or perpetrators, indeed is there such a distinction?

What you say makes sense and I'm sure some can be helped, it would be great if they could but I still think that there has to be a punishment for the youth of today. They do literally get away with murder and there doesn't seem to be any deterrent. In my opinion anyone who commits a crime is the perpetrator, they chose to break the law. I'm not against them recieving help but the victim must always come first, they are the innocent ones. Maybe some youngsters vent their anger on animals and eventually people but there are some who are just plain evil and do it for fun. This is just my opinion.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by demicav

Maybe some youngsters vent their anger on animals and eventually people but there are some who are just plain evil and do it for fun. This is just my opinion.

yep i'm with you on that - on a previous thread about this type of thing i refered to to delightful little darlings that i once apprehended feeding paracetemol laced bread to swans.

both were middle class , with priviledged backgrounds and were doing it basically for kicks because they knew mummy and daddy would get them off so they could do anything they liked.

such is the state of british justice that they turned out to be right - how do we tell the victim from the perpetrator - easily, the perpetrator is the evil little scrote with a bag full of poisoned bread, the victim is the dead cygnet

[demicav]

Originally Posted by eeyore

yep i'm with you on that - on a previous thread about this type of thing i refered to to delightful little darlings that i once apprehended feeding paracetemol laced bread to swans.

both were middle class , with priviledged backgrounds and were doing it basically for kicks because they knew mummy and daddy would get them off so they could do anything they liked.

such is the state of british justice that they turned out to be right - how do we tell the victim from the perpetrator - easily, the perpetrator is the evil little scrote with a bag full of poisoned bread, the victim is the dead cygnet

Wow, that's a new one, terrible.

[forevergreen]

People are really evil on the streets. Some of the people i know are sick little twerps
and i have witnessed people being kicked and stamped in the head on more than one ocation and have had it done to me. From first hand experience as a teenager alot of people who cause trouble some times have no connections with thier parents, and dont go out anywhere withthem so they get bored theres nothing to do in towns so they do stupid stuff like this for the adrealine rush. Once theyve started they cant stop its like drugs which also infuence things like this alot. I have seen people openly betting with drugs " oi go brick that car anfd ill give you a drag o this" My mtes think im wasting my childhood getting a camera a studying wildlife but getting arrested and smoking drugs is not my idea of fun. I have no intentions of living in britain when im older and i plan on getting a job in wildlife filming/photgraphy and conservation and travelling the world.