Newt ID please

[wellies101]

Okay, struggling with this one. In the two photos below is the same newt, the light is a bit different because the flash was in use on one. I know the two toads are common toads, but I am uncertain as to whether the newt in question is a smooth or palmate newt?

I had to pick up and move the newt otherwise it would have been covered in gravel and it had quite a "velvety" feel. Also note the two black lines running down the back. These two points, I believe, are possible signs of it being a palmate newt, but I could be wrong.

This newt was found on dry land, in august, under a railway sleeper where I presume it was feeding up before it prepares for hibernation.

[/IMG]

[/IMG]


As ever, any thoughts greatly appreciated.

[wellies101]

Forgot to mention, there is a juvenile newt at the back of the larger of the two toads. It is lighter in colour, but I am certain it is the same species as the larger.

[yellowhammer]

Pretty much impossible to tell from the photos unfortunately. Having said that, the hollow on the face and what might be a pale patch at the base of the hind leg (in the first photo) mean it could be a Palmate. Maybe. Or maybe not. The stripes along the back can be found in Smooth newts too.

Juvenile newts are impossible to differentiate even in the hand, so the little 'un gets the same answer I'm afraid. Survey says: We'll never know!

[Adam Cheeseman]

Were these pictures taken at Bedfont, James? If so then they are almost certainly Smoothies as I'm fairly certain Palmates haven't been recorded there, without checking.

Cheers,

Adam

[Gue Jam Fowsid]

Its hard to tell between the palmate and the smooth with out looking under the neck area at the markings. I guess this must be the terrestrial stage so the feet would be hard to distinguish as well. Nice find!

[wellies101]

Thanks all. Yeah they were found at Bedfont Adam, in the yard. Conclusion looks to be that they are Smooth Newts due to site knowledge, but ultimately too young to differentiate.