cannock chase red deer

[lewiso]

hi ive been going to cannock chase for years walking but am yet to see a Red Deer there ive bben told there are about 100 on there. ive seen countlees fellow deer but realy want to see a Red Deer does anybody know where about they are on the chase? i mostly go on the stafford side of the chase maybe they are on the otherside

[paulthomas]

They're there if you know where to look. I'm not about to blab that information out on a public forum though as it would put the deer at even greater risk from poaching. Sorry but the deer's safety must come first.

[Lance Morgan]

Send a p m then

[lewiso]

I to agree that they do need protection from poachers. But im sure that if the poachers realy wanted to find them then they would probably alot faster than me.
I beleive that for there protection in the long term there has to a greater public interest in the Red Deer and this can not be acheived by the attitude of ' there there if you know where to look'. Wildlife should be there for everybody to enjoy not just the people who already know where to go if this was the case then in 20 years there would be very very few people animal or bird watching apart from in there garden or eeven worse only on tv. The wildlife in this country is already being ignored by todays children in a few years when my children are old enough to go out with me i would much prefer them to be with me watching Red Deer than sat at home watching tv or on a games console but without the help of knowing where to go this will not be the case.

sorry if this seems if im having a rant but as a 24 year old who lived in the middle of a city untill a few years ago if nobody had helped me with what to do or where to go i would never of gained a interest in wildlife.

[paulthomas]

Originally Posted by lewiso

I beleive that for there protection in the long term there has to a greater public interest in the Red Deer and this can not be acheived by the attitude of ' there there if you know where to look'. Wildlife should be there for everybody to enjoy not just the people who already know where to go.

You're very naive by the sounds of it. Maybe if you were intimately involved in wildlife conservation in Staffordshire you'd have a more balanced view.

Originally Posted by lewiso

if this was the case then in 20 years there would be very very few people animal or bird watching apart from in there garden or eeven worse only on tv. The wildlife in this country is already being ignored by todays children in a few years when my children are old enough to go out with me i would much prefer them to be with me watching Red Deer than sat at home watching tv or on a games console but without the help of knowing where to go this will not be the case.

sorry if this seems if im having a rant but as a 24 year old who lived in the middle of a city untill a few years ago if nobody had helped me with what to do or where to go i would never of gained a interest in wildlife.

Whilst your desire to show your children Red Deer is laudable it cannot be at the expense of the safety of the deer themselves. Providing detailed information would be as irresponsible as broadcasting the exact location of a Badger sett. If you simply want to see Red Deer then take a trip over to Bradgate Park just north of Leicester.

[deer boy]

Hi lewiso & welcome to WAB
I don't know cannock chase but i'm sure if u go out early in the morning or late in the evening & wait you'll see Red Deer.
Try finding an advantage point where u have a good view & wait with some binoculars.
Perhaps try different locations each time u go but keep trying & i'm sure you'll find them.
As i say there most active in the morning & evening,let us know if you see any

[RobSutton]

Originally Posted by lewiso

I to agree that they do need protection from poachers. But im sure that if the poachers realy wanted to find them then they would probably alot faster than me.
I beleive that for there protection in the long term there has to a greater public interest in the Red Deer and this can not be acheived by the attitude of ' there there if you know where to look'. Wildlife should be there for everybody to enjoy not just the people who already know where to go if this was the case then in 20 years there would be very very few people animal or bird watching apart from in there garden or eeven worse only on tv. The wildlife in this country is already being ignored by todays children in a few years when my children are old enough to go out with me i would much prefer them to be with me watching Red Deer than sat at home watching tv or on a games console but without the help of knowing where to go this will not be the case.

sorry if this seems if im having a rant but as a 24 year old who lived in the middle of a city untill a few years ago if nobody had helped me with what to do or where to go i would never of gained a interest in wildlife.

Hi there - unlike Paul I tend to agree with you on this one. The people who poach deer or rob rare birds eggs etc already know exactly where to go.

For too long conservation in this country was a private club. You joined the local "Trust" got a key to the reserve and it got us absolutely nowhere. It's only in the last twenty years or so that wildlife has become mainstream and accessible to anyone and that's just how it should be.

ps .... and I've been intimately involved in conservation for well over thirty years now and some of those years were in Staffordshire.

pps ... welcome Lewiso

[paulthomas]

Originally Posted by RobSutton

Hi there - unlike Paul I tend to agree with you on this one. The people who poach deer or rob rare birds eggs etc already know exactly where to go.

Not necessarily. And there's not point in making it even easier for them. That would be like leaving your house unlocked just because one of your neighbours got burgled.

Originally Posted by RobSutton

For too long conservation in this country was a private club. You joined the local "Trust" got a key to the reserve and it got us absolutely nowhere. It's only in the last twenty years or so that wildlife has become mainstream and accessible to anyone and that's just how it should be.

ps .... and I've been intimately involved in conservation for well over thirty years now and some of those years were in Staffordshire.

Apart from a few sites run by West Midlands Bird Club, name one reserve in Staffordshire which is members only.

[lewiso]

If more people are able to out and see them out in the wild then there would be far more public interest and more public interest means more public funding for there protection and enviroment in which they live, which im sure you would agree could only be beneficial for the deer and al the flora and fauna in the area.
If they are kept secret people just wont be interested in them and one day it will to late for anybody to see them in the wild!

[RobSutton]

Originally Posted by paulthomas

Not necessarily. And there's not point in making it even easier for them. That would be like leaving your house unlocked just because one of your neighbours got burgled.



Apart from a few sites run by West Midlands Bird Club, name one reserve in Staffordshire which is members only.

The burglars know where your house is but by joining a Neighbourhood Watch scheme or asking your next door neighbour to keep an eye on your place when you're away on holiday it makes it less likely to be burgled. Just the same as when a local community knows and cares about the rarity nesting in the wood down the road it becomes much harder for someone to steal the eggs.

I was careful in my reply to speak about how things used to be - it was all in the past tense. I haven't lived in Staffs for a good few years now so am not familiar with who owns what so I can't rise to your challenge but I bet there are NNR's, SSSI's and Wildlife Trust reserves that have limited public access as well as the West Midlands Bird Club ones.

I think Spolky has hit the nail on the head by talking about the need to educate people - that can only happen if people can get out and share views of thigs like the deer on Cannock Chase.

[paulthomas]

Originally Posted by RobSutton

I was careful in my reply to speak about how things used to be - it was all in the past tense.

Which proves how utterly unqualified you are to speak about wildlife conservation in Staffordshire at the present time.

Originally Posted by RobSutton

I haven't lived in Staffs for a good few years now so am not familiar with who owns what so I can't rise to your challenge but I bet there are NNR's, SSSI's and Wildlife Trust reserves that have limited public access as well as the West Midlands Bird Club ones.

Those few reserves which limit public access do so because the area is either too dangerous or too environmentally sensitive (e.g., is a haven for ground-nesting birds). Nothing to do with exclusive membership or being given a key as you erroneously claimed. SSSIs are completely different because they can exist on private land and SSSI status does not affect land access rights. I would have thought that anyone "intimately involved in conservation" would know that. I'd also have thought that if you'd been involved in conservation in Staffordshire in any meaningful way, you'd be able to name a very famous Staffordshire SSSI where public access is denied.

Originally Posted by RobSutton

I think Spolky has hit the nail on the head by talking about the need to educate people - that can only happen if people can get out and share views of thigs like the deer on Cannock Chase.

Utter rubbish is the only way I can describe that statement. As with broadcasting the location of Badger setts or bird of prey nests, revealing the exact location of certain wildlife species such as deer exposes that wildlife to unacceptable risk of harm from sickos or criminals. It seems to me that it's not the public who need education (Staffordshire County Council have facilities on Cannock Chase for just this purpose as anyone who'd ever been "intimately involved in conservation" in the county would know) but people like you who's irresponsible attitude to disclosing sensitive information could easily put wildlife in harms way.

[RobSutton]

Originally Posted by paulthomas

.......... It seems to me that it's not the public who need education (Staffordshire County Council have facilities on Cannock Chase for just this purpose as anyone who'd ever been "intimately involved in conservation" in the county would know) but people like you who's irresponsible attitude to disclosing sensitive information could easily put wildlife in harms way.

The presence of Red Deer on Cannock Chase is not sensitive information, Google it and you get thousands of responses, some of which are very specific as to which areas you need to go to see them.

I must admit I find the whole tenor of your responses, including your initial one to Lewiso's initial request, unnecessarily rude - which is why I entered the thread in the first place.

I think there is a need for a civilised debate about secrecy, the points I was making about how conservation in the past restricted public access to areas were general comments trying to place the issue in context and were not meant to refer specifically to any particular sites in Staffordshire.

I am well aware of the status of SSSI's and NNR's and access land because I really have been professionally involved in conservation for over 30 years. You may not agree with the points I raised but that is no excuse to call into question my experience and understanding of these issues, and the fact that I don't now live in Staffordshire is totally irrelevant.

[lewiso]

I thought on a forum like this that people would refrain from having a slanging match but obviosly not! So paul you may be more involved with conservation than me, you may have spent more time watching them than me and you may have more expensive equipment than me but it gives you absolutly no more right to see them than me!
They dont belong to anybody, nobody has the right to say who can see them (although you seem to think other wise). Its clear now that you just want to keep them as your secret because you feel that in some way you deserve to see them more than anybody else.

[Gill Catton]

Paul's initial reply may have come across as rude - but that doesn't mean he meant it to be rude. Surely there's room for the benefit of the doubt here. Its difficult to always get tone right on a written forum - I have done it myself written something that then read with an awful tone that I never intended.

If he wants to keep the location of some Red Deer he's fond of on the quiet he's entitled to isn't he?
I don't think he should be bashed for this. He hasn't said that people should go see deer just that he doesn't want to reveal a specific location that he knows of on a public forum - again which I don't think is necesarily a bad thing.

There on in, it seems that many have perhaps been less than careful with regard to tone too and it seems to me there's no need really.

I personally think there are too many deer of all kinds and a little poaching or a greater demand for free range venison to me isn't a bad thing, - but perhaps if I regularly went to watch the same group of animals and got familiar with them, I'd feel differently about that specific group.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by lewiso

I thought on a forum like this that people would refrain from having a slanging match but obviosly not

It is a sad fact of internet life that there are always people who like to cause arguments and discord , even on well moderated forums such as this.

With regard to your original question I'd be inclined to head to the hednesford hills LNR - especially the area arround cockpit hill. I am a nature conservation professional - but have no qualms in giving this information out on line as it is already out there on the cannock chase website. If those that run and manage the chase see no reason to keep it secret then i cant see any reason not to repeat their info here.

alternately you could head to George´s Hayes NR (Grid Reference SK 067 133) where you may see Red Deer in the early morning - this info is freely available on the staffordshire wildlife trust website

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

If he wants to keep the location of some Red Deer he's fond of on the quiet he's entitled to isn't he?
.

he is indeed perfectly entitled to keep a secret if he wishes - but then he didnt have to say anything at all about it.

that said paul did have a good point that if you soley want to show your children Red Deer you are better off going to a semi captive herd like those at bradgate. However for all we know lewis may be fostering his childrens interest in their local environment!

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

.

BUt still I think this is now upsettness perpetuating upsettness and it all seems a bit unecessary esp since the relevant information has been presented regarding Red Deer at Cannock chase.

quite so - i've just private mesaged a mod so with any luck all the uneccesary slanging will be ceasing or disapearing soon.

in the mean time i'd call for calm and suggest that we all stick to discussing the subject of the thread rather than discussing the argument or attitude of other members.

[glsammy]

The second thread today that needs attention.
I'll remove it for now it needs a little tidying up.

[the young hunter]

I agree fully with Rob Sutton and eeyore

Everyone should have a chance to see wildlife and if the info is already out there, go and see what you want to and to be honest you can't compare a Red Deer to something like a ghost orchid or common crane nest.

(having a slanging match isn't the answer either )

wow, i just realised how old this thread is, woops!

mike