Why have 4x4s?

[malantone]

Originally Posted by moo

noooo... the bit about 4x4s shoving people into hedgerows is definitely not tosh - we have narrow windy roads with drystone walls all round here and you often see small cars embedded in them - and you never, ever see a 4x4 in its own lane! (except ours, of course)

It may be that, the reason the small cars hit the wall is because they can`t see over it and see a larger, or any vehicle coming the other way, surely on a country road there are no lanes on either side, just one that you have to share, chances are the driver who can see over the wall slows to avoid a colision with the dip stick screaming around the narrow roads in his souped up Fiat Panda,

[Coley]

Originally Posted by MalcolmX

just for the record i am firmly convinced carbon emissions and global warming are totally hyped up lies from a totally corrupt and discredited government that wants to tax and control us from birth to death

You must have noticed the unusual weather behaviour, the melting ice caps and the expanding deserts. If not, you must be ignorant, if your ignorant then that explains why you drive a 4x4.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by malantone

It may be that, the reason the small cars hit the wall is because they can`t see over it and see a larger, or any vehicle coming the other way, surely on a country road there are no lanes on either side, just one that you have to share, chances are the driver who can see over the wall slows to avoid a colision with the dip stick screaming around the narrow roads in his souped up Fiat Panda,

You don't drive 4x4s for the sole purpose of seeing over the occasional wall. I've been driven around in and have driven a normal car for my whole life, not one crash, a few near misses and alot of bulling by 4x4s. So I don't like them and I don't need one.

[Coley]

Few people have mentioned, on this thread, that it's not just 4x4s that tail gate.
Yes of course that is true, but I think 4x4s get picked on more for this because of their size, the headlights blazing into the back of your head, and the fact that they are designed to destroy everything they smash into. So no hard breaking for kids, dogs or old people when they dash into the road, otherwise you might end up worse.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by MalcolmX

just for the record i am firmly convinced carbon emissions and global warming are totally hyped up lies from a totally corrupt and discredited government that wants to tax and control us from birth to death

Well, we can all relax then ... but, if it's all down to the governing party, why is that all the other parties (other than the seriously lunatic) say that they want to introduce stronger measures?

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by moo

noooo... the bit about 4x4s shoving people into hedgerows is definitely not tosh - we have narrow windy roads with drystone walls all round here and you often see small cars embedded in them - and you never, ever see a 4x4 in its own lane! (except ours, of course)

Quite so - I mentioned very early in this thread the case where one of these monstrosities simply pushed us out of the was - despite it being no great problem for them to have backed up twenty metres or so to a passing place. As has been said before, a lot of the people are arrogant, self-centred [insert your own descriptive]s as can be seen on this thread - 'It's what I want and if I've got the money then the world and everyone in it can go to blazes' ....

[moo]

Originally Posted by malantone

It may be that, the reason the small cars hit the wall is because they can`t see over it and see a larger, or any vehicle coming the other way, surely on a country road there are no lanes on either side, just one that you have to share, chances are the driver who can see over the wall slows to avoid a colision with the dip stick screaming around the narrow roads in his souped up Fiat Panda,

sorry to be picky, but these are high walls and you can't see over them whether you're in a landy or nifty little peugeot 306 turbo sport which is my "souped up" car of choice.
I should perhaps also have been clearer - by "lane" I meant "side of road", and given that you can get a bus through with cars coming the opposite way there's no excuse!
My personal opinion is that a lot of the problem comes from drivers who have no idea how big their 4x4 actually is, and are not used to negotiating tight bends whilst remaining on the right side of the road. There's one road I drive every day and there's no problem with farmers in 4x4s, tractors, buses etc, but during tourist season you can spot the "city" 4x4s a mile off (as it were)

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by MalcolmX

why not make buses stop until they are full after all if you are so concerned about the environment whats a little waiting time to save the planet why not make kids walk to school may be better than getting fat in the car

A good many of us, as has been mentioned over and over again, have always walked our children to school ....

Look at the empty 'bus problem from the other direction - ban cars and the 'buses will be full. Every city and town centre should have a large no-car area and provide a 'bus service to compensate.... possibly a free one.

I was amazed, coming out of Manchester Piccadilly station a week or so back to see that there is a free 'bus service linking the stations, Manchester and Salford centres, the universities and anywhere that you would need to go so absolutely no point in taking a car into Manchester. Even more amazed to find the same thing in Leeds last week and, having said, 'Why can't we do that?', lo and behold Sheffield Passengers to Get Free City Centre Bus Service Miracles do happen .....

[Rich_]

Originally Posted by Coley

You must have noticed the unusual weather behaviour, the melting ice caps and the expanding deserts. If not, you must be ignorant, if your ignorant then that explains why you drive a 4x4.

I don't think that drivers of 4x4 s will be contributing much to the cause of this, (assuming it isn't a natural phenomenon) when you look at these statistics , FlightAware > Statistics & Analysis > Total Flight Activity Graphs if you didn't look at my earlier post.
As I said earlier these statistics are just for USA airspace ONLY.

Is it any wonder people are sceptical about the governments motives, You'd think they'd be limiting people to essential flights or one a year only, when instead they are considering expanding airports to accommodate more traffic while strangely putting an environmental tax on the air fares. The British car owner is a soft target to hit to make it look like they are tackling pollution, as opposed to the big business men running global airlines. There are a lot of hypocrites riding the Green bandwagon.

[Coley]

Originally Posted by Rich_

I don't think that drivers of 4x4 s will be contributing much to the cause of this, (assuming it isn't a natural phenomenon) when you look at these statistics , FlightAware > Statistics & Analysis > Total Flight Activity Graphs if you didn't look at my earlier post.
As I said earlier these statistics are just for USA airspace ONLY.

Is it any wonder people are sceptical about the governments motives, You'd think they'd be limiting people to essential flights or one a year only, when instead they are considering expanding airports to accommodate more traffic while strangely putting an environmental tax on the air fares. The British car owner is a soft target to hit to make it look like they are tackling pollution, as opposed to the big business men running global airlines. There are a lot of hypocrites riding the Green bandwagon.

But this subject is not just about the fule consumption. However, as we are running out of fule, it wouldn't hurt if people stopped using 4x4s if they don't need it. If you look at the 'How big is your ecological footprint' thread, you could see that we are already living outside our means. Every little helps. I understand the graphs and the reason for the fluctuations, but I don't see a comparitive one.

[matt_xyz]

Originally Posted by Rich_

I don't think that drivers of 4x4 s will be contributing much to the cause of this, (assuming it isn't a natural phenomenon) when you look at these statistics , FlightAware > Statistics & Analysis > Total Flight Activity Graphs if you didn't look at my earlier post.
As I said earlier these statistics are just for USA airspace ONLY.

Is it any wonder people are sceptical about the governments motives, You'd think they'd be limiting people to essential flights or one a year only, when instead they are considering expanding airports to accommodate more traffic while strangely putting an environmental tax on the air fares. The British car owner is a soft target to hit to make it look like they are tackling pollution, as opposed to the big business men running global airlines. There are a lot of hypocrites riding the Green bandwagon.

things aren't quite that clear-cut. In the UK, road transport accounts for around 22% of UK CO2 emissions while air transport is only around 3%. I know the latter is growing rapidly and I know 4x4s will contribute relatively little to the total road transport emissions, but it's not entirely accurate to imply that transport emissions are dominated by air emissions. Equally, it's not irrational of the govt to try to reduce road emissions.

I can't lay my hands on comparable figures for the US but I believe they are broadly similar, if my memory serves me correctly.

Matt

[malantone]

Originally Posted by moo

sorry to be picky, but these are high walls and you can't see over them whether you're in a landy or nifty little peugeot 306 turbo sport which is my "souped up" car of choice.
I should perhaps also have been clearer - by "lane" I meant "side of road", and given that you can get a bus through with cars coming the opposite way there's no excuse!
My personal opinion is that a lot of the problem comes from drivers who have no idea how big their 4x4 actually is, and are not used to negotiating tight bends whilst remaining on the right side of the road. There's one road I drive every day and there's no problem with farmers in 4x4s, tractors, buses etc, but during tourist season you can spot the "city" 4x4s a mile off (as it were)

what part of the country are you from??????? It sounds like you are not far from me, I`m in south lakes and the problem you describe with tourists, is all too familiar, how ever it is unfair to lump all the bad driving on 4x4`s, as a lot of townies no matter what they drive are not used to having the edge of the road defined by a solid stone wall, and as such drive down the middle of country roads and are frightened to go to the side when confronted with a car in the opposite direction
Try going over Hardknot pass in the summer with all the PASSING PLACES filled with townies having picnics etc
I think 4x4`s are great cars I use mine to pull my caravan, around here most have a use, horse boxes, trailers, shooting, pulling boats etc, I can see the argument of being unnessary if they aren`t fiited with a tow bar and are just used for the school run, but a lot are owned by caravanners who dont fly abroad and hence trade emmisions.
At the end of the day the government have found another easy target that is linked with the class thing, people tend to think that drivers of big cars are rich, as with horses and hunting, some maybe, but the majority probably aren`t, they will be ordinary blokes like me trying to enjoy life as best they can (on a pension in my case) and making choices that don`t really affect anyone else.
LIVE AND LET LIVE I SAY
Tony A.

[moo]

Originally Posted by malantone

what part of the country are you from??????? It sounds like you are not far from me, I`m in south lakes and the problem you describe with tourists, is all too familiar, how ever it is unfair to lump all the bad driving on 4x4`s, as a lot of townies no matter what they drive are not used to having the edge of the road defined by a solid stone wall, and as such drive down the middle of country roads and are frightened to go to the side when confronted with a car in the opposite direction
Try going over Hardknot pass in the summer with all the PASSING PLACES filled with townies having picnics etc

yes - I figured you might be from round here too! Road from Cockermouth to Crummock via Lorton is the one I was thinking of and you are right - it is tourist cars in general, but the 4x4s seem to take up more space - esp when you've got a car as squashable as mine...

[JeffH]

Well, despite reading the 'words of wisdom' in some of the posts on this thread (many of which are merely repeats of what has been said on earlier similar threads) and on the other Climate Change threads, I'm almost ashamed to confess that I for one simply don't know all the answers to the problem of global warming

Still, how reassuring to know that so many of WAB's eco-warriors do or, to misquote Groucho Marx - 'what a pity that all the people who seem to know the answers to the world's problems are driving cabs or cutting hair' (or in this case making posts on WAB)

Jeff

[Boddie]

I could not agree more Jeff. This topic comes up every couple of months and always bores me. I drive a 5 series beemer. At the end of this week I'll have had it have had it 4 weeks and will have put 6,000 miles on it. Does that make me any worse or any better than a 4X4 driver?

I need the car for my job. The NHS needs me so that surgeons perform better, and I look to save them money too, but my emissions are likely to be as high as 4X4 drivers.

Does this make me a bad person?

[JeffH]

Originally Posted by Boddie

I could not agree more Jeff. This topic comes up every couple of months and always bores me. I drive a 5 series beemer. At the end of this week I'll have had it have had it 4 weeks and will have put 6,000 miles on it. Does that make me any worse or any better than a 4X4 driver?

I need the car for my job. The NHS needs me so that surgeons perform better, and I look to save them money too, but my emissions are likely to be as high as 4X4 drivers.

Does this make me a bad person?

No, it most certainly does not Boddie!

(But I'm guessing there may be other things about you that do )

Jeff

[zharca]

Just a little word on driving standards from another forum.
(Edited for language, 'cos they're not as polite as us!)

kidsinister wrote:
Once more for the hard of thinking; when you buy a BMW you automatically become de facto owner of any road you drive on, and the rules and conventions of driver courtesy DO NOT APPLY. Such things as these 'indicators', or 'trafficators' of which you speak are entirely redundant on a BMW as it's none of anybody's business which way I'm going because I'm more important than you and you can just get the out of my way. It's really quite simple, I don't understand the problem.

[dmclean2]

Please! Please !, I know Why , It's to take the kids to school and fowl up the other road users,Yes?

[malantone]

Originally Posted by Coley

I thought it would be funny if we could argue the purpose of these vehicles.
For example; They protect you in a crash.

I'm looking forward to your opinions.

you don`t appear to be having fun, you seem to be getting more irrate by the day ,It appears you had an oppinion before starting this discussion on the purpose of these cars (or slag the 4x4 drivers and I don`t care what anyone else says).
Can some one tell how to unsubscribe from this thread as I am really fed up with it.
Tony A.

[Boddie]

That makes two of us Tony

Pure jealousy as I see it.

I got a 5 series purely as a status symbol. I have pride in how successful I am. Furthermore I love the comfort level, the safety it offers, and I want both of these for my missus and my family when I take them out.

I love the speed it offers me. It is fast

[Coley]

You guys would love to think that we're jealous of your cars. Why?

[Coley]

Originally Posted by malantone

you don`t appear to be having fun, you seem to be getting more irrate by the day ,It appears you had an oppinion before starting this discussion on the purpose of these cars (or slag the 4x4 drivers and I don`t care what anyone else says).
Can some one tell how to unsubscribe from this thread as I am really fed up with it.
Tony A.

If you don't like the subject, then don't post about stuff no one cares about. BTW, you're not subscribed to this thread you're subscribed to the forum for people who give a damn about wildlife and the planet.