New D800

[The Black Rabbit]

Originally Posted by pressld2

...but not sure I'd want 36 megapixels! And it's got me worried ... I don't want that; I want better noise handling at high ISOs. I want to be able to shoot at ISO 800 and get results like I'm currently getting at ISO 200 and the higher they go on the pixel count the less chance I'll have.

Dave P.

I agree Dave.

I thought this had all been sorted with Canons and Nikons until quite recently - bigger pixels better than more (smaller) pixels?

If I had a grand to blow on a camera these days (sadly I don't), I'd no think twice and buy a second hand 1Ds mkII. Its got the maximum number of MP (16) I'd like in a full frame body and I think the images it produces far outstrip the more modern cameras.

I know there are many disadvantages to this old girl (I'll live with the cruddy screen etc...), but I love what she produces!

36 MP? Surely that must be a step backwards in terms of eventual IQ - (at least for my needs / wants)?

TBR

[enthusiast jules]

Why are people worried about the D800's 36 Mpixels, this is a lower pixel density than my D7000, which has an enviable reputation for low noise, particularly at sensible sub 1600 settings where most critical work is done.What is really amazing is it's ability to auto focus at f8, down to -2EV, otherwise known as moonlight.I could use a 1.4 converter on my Sigmonster and enjoy a 1120 mm with auto focus, and the ability to crop like you wouldn't believe.
I am disappointed that it doesn't sport the new ultra high speed memory format of the D4 ,as I would think the massive D800 files would need it more.
Also at well over £2000 why not employ an OLED screen, for better visibility and lag free video ?
Regards Jules.

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by enthusiast jules

Why are people worried about the D800's 36 Mpixels

A lot of us don't have state of the art computers to manipulate such a big lump of data. I shudder to think how long it would take my AMD Athlon machine with 2 Meg of RAM, to rotate a D800 image in Photoshop - it'd probably be an overnight job! I guess you'd really need a heavyweight water-cooled gaming machine with loads of RAM.

Jim

[Jimbo2]

Has anyone tried the Nikon D5100 for noise reduction? I have one and sometimes I shoot at high ISO numbers, not being used to new fangled terminology I am curious as how to spot noise on a photo, sorry to be so obtuse but I have only recently moved into digital photography, and got a lap top so I am still green.

[Jimbo2]

PS I think the D5100 has the same sensor as the D7000? Thanks Jimbo.....

[enthusiast jules]

A lot of people are confused by the idea of "noise" in a picture.All camera sensors have a basic or "native" sensitivity.Generally the smaller the sensor is,the higher the pixel density, and the lower this sensitivity.All digital cameras mimic higher film sensitivities or ISOs, by increasing the voltage to the sensor.Just like a hi-fi amplifier, the more the voltage is increased, the greater the distortion.In an image it appears gritty, much like film grain.It is quite possible to have a tack sharp image with a lot of noise.Most cameras however try to reduce the gritty appearance with noise reduction, unfortunately this inevitably smooths out some detail as well.In cases of very aggressive noise reduction, the image looks like a blotchy watercolour.To overcome this problem cameras are being introduced with larger sensors, like the Fuji X-S1,and Sony NEXC3.Of course full frame pro SLRs like the Nikon D3s with low pixel densities are the best.Most SLRs today have good noise performance up to ISO 800, the very best up to ISO 6400.One Advantage of shooting RAW is a fine control of noise reduction, so you can choose a cleaner (less gritty) or sharper look.
Hope this has been useful
regards Jules

[Jim Ford]

So how do you think the 40 megapixel mobile 'phone camera images will come out with the very high pixel density? (What size sensor does the thing have, anyway?)

Jim

[Jimbo2]

thank you Jules for that most informative script, I am still not too sure but will attempt to get to grips with it.

[enthusiast jules]

A little more about noise
Noise comes in two"flavours", chroma (or colour) and luminance (or brightness).Often in wildlife photography we crop considerably to increase the impact of an image.This makes both types of noise far more visible.Also distant subjects lose contrast, softening the image, and usually sharpening is used which also increases both types of noise.Of the two chroma is the least desirable, often showing at high ISOs as random colours in an otherwise black subject, a coots body for example, or in large areas of uniform colour, like a blue sky. A technique which at least avoids increasing chroma noise is luminosity sharpening.Always sharpen your images after all other adjustments have been done, for the best results.First duplicate your background layer.Next apply the unsharp mask to the duplicate.It pays to experiment with the settings of this tool, to get the effect you want.Generally for the best detail go for about .5 to 1.5 pixels radius and a very high percentage like 225%.Set threshhold low, less than 20%.To gauge the effect, zoom in to 100%, and click the eye ikon on and off.The clever part is changing the blend mode from "normal" to "luminosity".Now only the brightness information is sharpened, which should give a cleaner result.I realise this sounds a bit complicated to a beginner, but a google search shows some clear demonstrations of this on "You tube".
Hope this has been helpful
Regards Jules

[The_Moaner]

Ah! Noise..With film if you use the right Dev for iso800 you'll get no noise. It will be nice n smooth n sharp. Dektol I think (but I can be corrected) Xtol maybe.
I'm no expert in Darkroom but I'm sure those that are will tell.
The way techknowledgy is going I'm quite positive they can produce a Digi with NO noise at iso800 to 1600 at a decent price we can all afford. Like a grand or below instead of £5000 or more which is the hight of GREEDYNESS in my book.
I'm 65 this year and would like to see a Canon camera with no noise at iso800 before I die.. One I can afford that is.
Have a Good Weekend.


PS Jules-- Is this correct way of above.....Duplicate--Luminosity--Sharpen. In that order. Going to give that a go. Thanks.