D700, telephoto lenses and teleconverters?

[GrazzaM]

Hi everyone,

Just joined up today (great site BTW ) and I've been having read through a lot of the posts about telephoto lenses, as a result I was hoping you good folks might be able to help me out please?

I've recently upgraded from a Nikon D70s to a D700 (the stunning ISO performance and my lack of DX lenses sold it, as I also shoot landscapes) and my trusty "old" Nikkor 70-300mm F4-5.6 G lens has served me well, but it's time for a upgrade to compensate for the loss of the 1.5x crop on the sensor (which I knew about before purchasing the camera).

I've been looking at lots of different lenses and, due to budget constraints, have narrowed it down to the following:

Sigma 120-400mm F4.5-5.6 DG OS HSM
Sigma 150-500mm F5-6.3 DG OS HSM
Nikon 80-400mm f/4.5-5.6D VR AF IF-ED (Secondhand)

I've seen that many of you use the Sigma 150-500 and the Nikon 80-400 and are happy with them, but any other thoughts? Also, would either a 1.4x or 2x teleconverter be a good idea with the above Sigmas, or should I only be thinking of using teleconverters with prime lenses?

Last point, does anyone know if the Tamron 200-500mm F5-6.3 DI is worth considering as an alternative to the above?

Any help and comments appreciated

All the best
Graham

[Simples]

The Sigma 50-500mm f4-6.3 EX DG is the lens for wildlife. I've studies hundreds of images taken with this lens and yet to see a bad one. Wish I could afford it myself!

[GrazzaM]

Ah, thanks for the reminder...almost forgot the "Bigma" (the Sigma stockist I was talking to focused on the others) I'll make sure I take a look at that too. Thanks

[squishy]

bigmas seem to be getting harder to find.

If you're using a TC and stopping down (like most people do) to get sharper results you start to lose a lot of light at the top end of a not-super-fast 500.

I know that the bigma's 'sweet spot' is supposed to be about f/8. if you stop down to that with a 1.4x you get a 700mm F/11. I don't have any experience of this, but I do know that in all my photo Gallery browsing I don't think I have yet seen anyone listing that they used a bigma/150-500 with a 1.4x. (no doubt someone is now going to post a link to a large Gallery all taken with that combination, but I thought it was worth mentioning )

Pressld2 is the guy to talk to about the 80-400 vr

[DrNickBurton]

Hi,

I'm not sure how any of the lenses you mentioned are going to fare on FX. If a lens is OK on DX, it does not follow that it is also OK on FX (I'm talking performance, not compatibility). My guess would be the 80-400mm would best (or the 300mm f4 with a 1.4 TC). I'd worry about the corners on the 3rd party super zooms on a full frame sensor. It's well worth checking on some photography forums like dpreview for combinations of those specific lenses with the D700.

How about buying a second hand D200/D300 for the long stuff, and keeping the D700 for close encounters (and landscapes)? No joke - it might be your best option, if you envisage working a lot at 420mm+.

[Jonsfotos]

Hi Graham,
Congratulations on getting the D700.I have one and i agree with you, it`s a smashing bit of kit.The images you get at high ISO`s are indeed excellent.I use a Nikon 300mm F2.8 AFS MK 11 in conjunction with 1.4 & 1.7 TCE 11 Converters.Unfortunately this set up is very pricey and to be honest it took quite some time getting the necessary funds but was well worth the wait.I find that Converters work superbly with Primes but i must admit i have never attempted using them with the big zooms.I won`t stick my neck out and say that they will not work with zooms as i know somebody will have had good results and i will be shot down in flames.Having said that, most forums i have read tend to agree that image quality suffers greatly when a zoom is used in conjunction with a Teleconverter.I find the 300mm with the 1.7 Converter works well at F7.1 and images are sharp but i have shot wide open and images are still excellent. The 1.4 Converter is even better and images are sharp at wide open.The drawback of a 300mm is lack of reach so even with the 1.7 attached you still only get 510mm but i try hard to get as close as possible to my subject .Obviously there are times when more reach is required and that is why I have a D200 as back- up but i prefer the image quality of the D700, especially at the High ISO `s.The Nikon 300mm AFS F4 Lens is a superb Lens and is worth considering and is around £900 new, £750-800 used .It works well with both 1.7 and 1.4 Converters and the results are on par with the 300f 2.8 but at 1/4 the price.The 50-500 Bigma is a good Lens which gives excellent results and Wayne ( Welsh Lensman ) uses a 150-500 with his D300 and he produces marvellous images.The drawback with the D700 is unfortunately the full frame, you really need the big 400 2.8 / 500 f4 plus relevant Converters to get the reach but the prices.....well, say no more.In my opinion, the 300 AFS F4 Plus the 1.4 and /or 1.7 Converter would be a good start.I have attached a pic to show what can be achieved.Hope this is of help to you Graham. All the best.
Jon.

[GrazzaM]

Wow, thanks everyone, this is all really helpful information

Jon - That's a fantastic image I had thought about prime lenses, but I'd forgotten about the Nikon AFS 300mm f4. That's a great suggestion, especially with the 1.4x and/or 1.7x, so I'll certainly take a look at this combination as well as the others. Thanks.

Only thing I need to do now is wait for the last few pennies to fall in place

To everyone - I'm really glad I joined WAB today, never done this before but it's turned out to be a great decision Really appreciate everyone's thoughts and comments so far, my sincerest thanks to you all.

All the best
Graham

[pressld2]

Welcome aboard GrazzaM, you'll like it here!

Originally Posted by squishy

Pressld2 is the guy to talk to about the 80-400 vr

Someone mention my name?

Yep I use the 80-400mm VR although I never switch the VR on as I always have the lens supported with something and find it's sharper without. I'm using it with a D300 though so still have the benefit of the crop factor. Even so I still find myself wanting extra reach quite often so I'm not sure if it's the lens for you, especially as it's not compatible with the Nikon TCE converters. And I'm not just talking irritations like loss of metering or AF, I mean you can't mount the lens onto the TC because glass hits glass. I have a Kenko Pro 300 1.4x converter which is compatible (and retains metering and AF) but it does have an impact on image quality.

I've no personal experience of the Bigma but there have been threads here on WAB suggesting that the top end falls a bit short of the advertised 500mm - more like 450mm I believe. In which case it's not giving you much more reach than the 80-400 and you'll lose half a stop of aperture too.

If your budget will stretch then I reckon Jon's suggestion of a 300mm prime with TCs is your best bet. The downside here is that you lose the flexibility of a zoom but image quality should be excellent and with the 1.7 TC you'll be topping 500mm.

Here's a shot from today with the D300 plus 80-400mm...



Mind you, this one also demonstrates the flexibility of the zoom as it was zoomed out to 250mm to get the whole bird in the frame.

Dave P.

[DrNickBurton]

It's interesting to compare

(i) D700 + 300mm f4 + 1.4 TC

(ii) D300 + 300mm f4

Advantages of combo (ii) are:
- better corners (sharper, less light fall off, perhaps less CA)
- faster AF (due to lack of TC)
- 1 stop brighter (again due to lack of TC, which near as damn it compensates for the better ISO performance of the D700)
- marginally narrower field of view (equivalent of 450mm vs 420mm of combo (i))
- can still add a 1.4 TC to reach equivalent of 630mm if desired

Or to put another way, a DX sensor is the best teleconverter money can buy. This is why I keep D300 and a D700 - the 300 for pure reach, the 700 for close up work, and twighlight conditions.

[Tobyh]

Hi Grazza,

Welcome to WAB!

I have no experience of the D700 (using a D300) but have just upgraded from a Bigma to using a Sigma 300mm f2.8 in conjunction with converters.

The Bigma is a great piece of kit and it certainly does have a sweet spot at f8 and around 420mm I found (guess this may vary) but certainly was softer at 500mm. The plus is versatility to allow you to zoom for your shots which the primes won't give (and it's hard to move backwards when in a hide )

The bad point is that using a TC with the Bigma may limit you too much to days when the light is pretty strong.

If the budget stretches to it then I can recommend a fast prime and converters - I'm just getting going with this setup but as an example of what you can do - this is with a 2x converter.


More examples in my Gallery here and I did pop up a thread with more of my first examples using the 2X and how I felt it was working.

I appreciate you won't have quite the reach on a D700 but it would still get you to 600mm.

Personally I want to get a 500mm prime and am using this as a stepping point - we all know they aren't cheap!

Good luck!

TobyH