Help please : (

[1957split]

Hi all

If you have read any of my other posts you will know I'm new to digital camera's, have a new D80 and have just purchased a used bigma via ebay.

I have actually read the D80 manual and any other posts on here that I could find that would be useful especially relating to the Sigma 50-500mm lens, I have read that the bigma works best at F8 and not to use the full zoom so I kept this back to 450mm [unless angled down and it crept out].

Connor and I carried our equipment to a spot we know that's approx 7 miles from where we parked the car, it's a sort of natural hide opposite a creek on the Medway where we know Herons can be found.
We got set up and were both using tripods and waited for the tide to recede, as the mud banks became exposed the Herons moved in and we had them in full view and to ourselves for many hours
I had problems of knowing what to set the camera at, the mud gave off one reading, the water another and the wooded area behind yet another, the sky was to bright to be considered at this stage.
I started with the camera set at aperture priority so I could maintain the F8 reccomended, I ranged from 200-400 ISO to try and get the shutter speed down below the 1/1000 mark [was this right?] and WB set to auto. The first few pic's seemed to lack details so I played around some more going either slightly above or below the F8, still not a lot of difference. The LCD screen showed images but no real definition we spent most the day in this spot and I fired off some 600 shot's [newbie mistake I guess].

Both Connor and I were pretty tired by now and headed off back to the car [7 miles with a bigma and tripod hanging round your neck] and set off for home, I uploaded my pictures first [both cards] and was really disappointed with my results, there were the few pic's with camera shake and the odd one were the Heron did something unexpected that were blurred so deleted but NO definition, NO sharp lines, 500 boring pictures of which 3/4's have been deleted.

Where did I go wrong

Here's one, the size had to be reduced to upload to this site but it hasn't been cropped or messed about with.



Was I to far away for the bigma to pick up fine detail? I guess we were approx 150 feet away and the lens didn't get used below 450mm.
The camera was set on centre point focusing [AF] and either centre metering or centre weighted.

Any tips/advice would really be appreciated as I was on a downer last night

Thanks
Brian.

P.S. Connor took some amazing pic's with his FZ28 [great camera] on optical zoom [down to 3 meg] showing as much detail or more than any of mine, well done son

[DavyG]

Don't be too hard on yourself, or your kit.

Considering you were around 150ft away from the birds, you've done well.

The exposure and white balance is not bad at all, looking at the background, I think you did well to achieve what you did.

To get the level of detail which I think you're after, you may need to get a bit closer to your subject.

Did you photograph in raw or jpeg?

Have you carried out any post processing on the image?

Dave

[NickCantle]

Afternoon Brian,

First off and most importantly, taking 600 shots as a 'newbie' is more positive than a negative- in fact I would have been inclined to take twice that amount, and often do when kit testing.

As for your Herons, I think they are a little too far out of the way to capture the definition that you require. I made the mistake of purchasing the Bigma thinking that it would frame birds from 100 feet away, but it doesn't! In my experience, to get good shots, you need to be at most 20 to 25 feet away from your subject to retain the detail needed.

As for the technical details, I wouldn't 'limit' yourself to f/8, though it is apparently the best to use. Sometimes, the light wont allow you to use such a wide aperture, so even f/6.3 is acceptable when there's no other solution. Experimenting with positive and negative exposure compensation is a absolute must. I know it's not bird photography, but I was out taking photographs of plants yesterday and I'd find a flower of a Campion, set up the tripod and camera to frame it, select an average aperture (f/11 for me) and use the depth of field preview button to check that the depth of field is satisfactory, then take one picture, review it and then make changes- if it's too light and the highlights are overblown, then negative exposure compensation can solve that and if the image turned out too dark, a little editing off camera is needed, but it's a very personal process that you will find after lots of experimentation.

Keep trying Brian, and it might be worth going somewhere like a nature reserve and taking images at a set distance of one of the information plaques to gather information on how the Bigma assesses the exposure information. You can take the camera home and download the images of the plaque and view the EXIF data- if one picture has loads of definition, small DoF and is slightly darker than the rest, you can look at your EXIF and see that you used f/6.3 and one stop of negative exposure compensation.

I hope that helps a little, and the best thing you can do is get out there as much as you can

Nick

[squishy]

that heron shot looks brilliant to me! if thats unedited, i'm sure a bit of fiddling around would make it a great shot

i bet once you get to know it, and have worked it all out, you'll really start to see where a DSLR and long lens can out perform any super-zoom

[1957split]

Hi DaveyG and Nick

It did dawn on me last night that maybe the distance had something to do with it, it didn't matter what changes were made to the camera settings all the pictures were similar.

Being new to all this I instantly assumed I was going to get definition through the full focal range and being 10mp images [first digi cam was 1.4mp], never dream't that I'd loose on the detail by being to far away

Our Heron colony will now get left in peace as they're not accessable from their side of the river and I was on the opposite bank [hiding of course]

Dave the pictures were taken on the large/fine Jpeg setting ot the camera, I've yet to experiment with raw images as I haven't got the foggiest what to do to them. I understand they're a larger file so more information saved and thats about it, I haven't done any post processing on the pic's as that's all new to me as well.
I do have installed Photoshop CS4 and Lightroom 2.1 also Capture NX and Silkypix, something else called Sharpener Pro 3 but to be honest I haven't a clue what to do with any of them. I collect programmes but the mistake I always make is having to many, you never learn to master one

I bought the Bigma also assuming I could get brilliant shots at a 100' plus Nick, you never stop learning which I guess is what keeps life interesting
I'd look at the pictures of the birds of prey up in the sky, froze perfectly, crisp clean pictures and taken with the bigma, well I assumed they were hundreds of feet away and just cropped down to size with all that detail still intact [no doubt another newbie mistake]

I did take a few handheld shots from around the 20'-30' mark and they came out fine, even though trying to hold the camera/lens and tripod up in the air was a struggle [got to buy a monopod].

Thanks guys, I won't give up yet

Brian.

[1957split]

Originally Posted by squishy

that heron shot looks brilliant to me! if thats unedited, i'm sure a bit of fiddling around would make it a great shot

i bet once you get to know it, and have worked it all out, you'll really start to see where a DSLR and long lens can out perform any super-zoom

I didn't out perform Connor yesterday Adam his FZ28 is amazing for the size of it, it's small light zooms right up to 400+mm yet he's taking great macro shots 10 seconds later.
If the best range for the Bigma is 20'-30' away Connor's gonna take some beating

[nightshade]

I am not a very good photographer but I do like to know what a lense can do
So on a nice bright day I set up my tripod and photograph something with a good contrast ( a big crossword puzzle mounted on hardboard or a brick wall) and try the different apertures at typical zoom settings 100, 200, 300, etc at a suitable shutter speed 1/250-1/500 once you have done this do as Nick Cantle says in his post. It all gives you confidence

[momji1971]

Great shots considering the distance involved! But I agree with everything already said. Long lenses don't mean you can shoot from miles away! Lots of things interfere with the image over that distance such as atmospheric conditions, heat haze, flare. All take away that precious detail.

Take your time and learn to get closer to the subject and I'm positive you'll be amazed at the shots you take. Pro's can pay a fortune for guides to help them get this close to elusive subjects and spend days or weeks getting that one image.

Don't be to hard on yourself. It's a long learning curve.

Happy shooting.
Stu.

[squishy]

there was a thread comparing super zooms to DSLR's a while back. the general conclusion was that you only see the difference once you reach a certain level of skill and experience, but once you reach that, you see a BIIIIIG difference


(i can't find the thread now )

[1957split]

Cheers for the encouragement guys, much appreciated

I in my own little world assumed if the subject was further away you just got a longer lens, I can see there's alot more to it than that.

We're off out again tomorrow [Riverside Country Park] and the beauty of this place is the multitude of possiblities, waders one side, woodland and field birds the other with the occasional b.o.p. up above, should keep us busy

Thanks all

Brian.