WARNING windows live photo gallery 2011 may be degrading your images

[DorsetDunk]

WARNING
windows live photo Gallery 2011 may be degrading your images each time you add a caption or tag to a jpg
it re-saves the image in a lossy format and the file size is reduced from the original
I advise you not to use this program with treasured original images
the problem seems to arise with the use of third party jpg codecs released either by the camera or software manufactures though they are obviously not at fault
as I can not replicate the loss of file size in Zoner, Picasa or any other software that adds tags or labels so the fault lies with windows photo Gallery
if you are using this software then test your file sizes by right clicking on a jpg and checking properties before and after adding tags to make sure you are not losing image quality Microsoft has been aware of this issue since the Beta stage it seems and has not provided a fix.

the thread here deals with the problem in more detail
if this the is root of the problem as far as I know I have only added raw codecs to my system and still have reduced file sizes after adding a tag
so i really urge you to test your files sizes to be on the safe side
i certainly will not be using live Gallery again luckily i goggled to see if anyone was having problems before i committed myself to using it a my main organizer
WARNING: Windows Live Essentials 2011 [Page 1]: PC Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

[The_Moaner]

I upload 1400 x 1050 JPGs and NEVER tag them. Don't find any reason to do so.
I only use Windows Live for others to view the photos so they can tell me what they like and want.
Once I have saved in a JPG I never change anything to it. Save As & caption at same time.
I Never Ever Save my Best files to any internet upload site, not even Cloud. I value my files and keep them on two HDD.

[DorsetDunk]

Originally Posted by The_Moaner

Once I have saved in a JPG I never change anything to it. Save As & caption at same time.
.

this is has nothing what so ever to with uploading ,clouds or uploading sites you have obviously not read this through thoroughly Moaner
windows Gallery will decrease the file size (image quality) even if you just add a caption,the cause may be down to third party codecs installed to view raw files through the window os or if you have installed any software that replaces the windows codecs

so those that only use jpg please check the files sizes after adding tags OR captions within window photo Gallery before trusting it with your originals
because if you do loose image quality due to this bug there is no way can retrieve the lost data

[The_Moaner]

Well I find nothing wrong with my files on windows Live Gallery.
Try Zenfolio if you don't like Windows Live.

[DorsetDunk]

glad to hear your images are ok , though Zenfolio is a photo sharing site and i am referring to the original images stored on the hard-drive when using windows photo Gallery

I was lucky that i came across the article while searching for reviews and discovered that it was happening on my system fortunately i had only added captions to a handful instead of archiving the whole drive.the jpgs are intended for sideshows so I would have had to process them all again from raw to regain the resolution i need for the projector

[Red Squirrel]

After reading this yesterday I tried tagging a newly edited pic DD because I'm new to Windows 7 and therefore Windows Live. That was all I did just tag and no description and it didn't alter the edited file size.

Will check again later when I have 10 mins to spare and come back with the results.

[DorsetDunk]

If you have not installed any codecs you should be ok but its worth checking to be on the safe side
the reason i did so was to view cr2 raws directly in the windows pictures folder
but i thought i only downloaded the raw codec to allow this in windows7
so I am baffled as to why this effects jpgs

i now use helicon photo safe in combination with picasa for photo management,both of which are freeware not very keen on picasa due to not being able to access external drives directly and it swaps the captions when uploading to flickr via uploadr but have yet to find a all in one alternative

[hillrover]

I don't use Windows Live Photo Gallery, but here is some background on jpegs for anyone not familiar with how they work.

When you save a jpeg the file is compressed by the software. It does this by throwing bits of it away and then re-placing them when the file is re-opened. If the file remains unchanged it will be closed in the same way as it opened - no damage done.

But. When you make any alterations to a jpeg - in any photo processing software - the software will re-scramble the file and throw bit of it away again - not necessarily the same bits!!

Every time you alter the image and re-save it the software will, once again, re-scramble/throw bits away etc, it in order to re-compress it.

Once or twice will not make much difference to the file but if you open - alter - re-save often enough (c10 times) you will visibly degrade the image.
This applies whatever the software you are using because it is the re-scrambling/compressing that does the damage.

Best thing is to keep a copy of the original and never change it - like you would a negative. Do all the alterations with a duplicate file.

Hope this makes sense, it's a bit complicated to write down.

Christine

[GTH]

Spot on Christine....you have explained it very well. I always save the original in raw and manipulate a copy.

Geoff

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by GTH

I always save the original in raw and manipulate a copy.

A bit pedantic, but probably more accurately stated by saying that you save the raw, and manipulate JPEG/TIFF files developed from it.

This gets around the false idea that a lot of people seem to have, that you can actually manipulate the raw.

As I've stated elsewhere, the only way to manipulate/alter the raw file is by editing it at the byte level with a UNIX/LINUX low-level utility - and you'd probably end up with a meaningless file anyway.

Jim