MAC or PC?

[Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

Apologies to OP for digressing once more, but: -



It can only do such things as a result of your inadvertent typing of combinations of control keys.

I have used various incarnations of MS Word for 20 years or so, and have never had any problems with it whatsoever.

The company that I worked for used solely Microsoft "Office" software, and over the years we had the usual turnover of staff. Invariably, the one's who had continuous trouble with the software, and who often came complaining or asking for help, were the ones who couldn't be bothered to learn/remember what did what.

I resolutely stand by what I say on this - anyone who complains about MS Word, simply has not taken enough trouble in learning the basics. I'm definitely not pro Microsoft per se - but both Word and Excel are truly fabulous programs.

In my case, and in the case of probably several millions of individual and company users worldwide, MS Word does everything I could ever need and much more, (with great ease and predictability in use too). - So, if it ain't broke, why bother trying to fix it?

Regards,
Mike.

That's a bit of a sweeping statement & frankly can be read as a tad offensive. I & my office manager also have used various incarnations of Word for 15 yrs & over & we were taught to use it properly via courses etc & we are both advanced users of Word & Excel.

Word is/can be a good but I stand by my opinion of it that it is a frustrating program. I don't have a problem with Excel at all (except similar niggles as described below with the newer 2007 vers), but it does what I want, when I want it, Word does not.

Word decided to redo a perfectly good system to the new ribbon version of 2007. It wasn't broken but they still tried to 'fix' it. We've got our heads 'round it now but there are functions which we were able to do in the old which are now nigh on impossible to do (don't speak to my OM about mail merges) & no matter how many times I've set the defaults to change copy & paste to the destination formatting it will insist on randomly changing some of the font back to the original files font Times New Roman (& I despise that font!).

I've noticed however that the new version has gone back to the way it was.

Sorry to keep dragging off subject but I object to being categorised as someone who can't be bothered to learn something properly, I felt that was a bit rude

[Lancashire Lad]

Originally Posted by Cowgirl

That's a bit of a sweeping statement & frankly can be read as a tad offensive...... I object to being categorised as someone who can't be bothered to learn something properly, I felt that was a bit rude

Yes, on reading it back it does appear somewhat forthright, and I apologise for any offence caused – though I can honestly say that I have never experienced any of the problems which you (or others) have mentioned.

I still say that users will typically condemn a program, when more often than not it is their erroneous keying which is the root cause of the problems. I don’t recall in the many years of helping out company colleagues, one instance where the Word program itself was at fault.

I’ve used it since Office 92 came out, but I personally haven’t upgraded from 2003 version, as I haven’t seen anything in the newer versions that I need. It would seem that the specific problems you mention arise from the 2007 version. But surely, such “industrial grade” bugs would have been ironed out with downloadable fixes available to properly licensed/registered users? – I find it hard to believe that such major “faults/bugs” would have been left unattended for three years until Office 2010 was released?

Anyhow, I suppose with word processing packages, like any other software or indeed the computer platform itself – whatever you prefer and feel most at home with, will always be the best for yourself, regardless of what others might say.

Apologies to OP for digressing yet again – I shall now exit stage left – honest!!

Regards,
Mike.

[Paul mabbott]

Originally Posted by thunder

I can assure you that these problems that I describe are nothing to do with control keys. I don't know what they are caused by.

how can you be so sure that you've not done something - pressing the alt or ctrl keys at the same time as other keys, unknowingly, can do all sorts of thingss!

.... But why is it so impossible to find why something has changed without one wishing it to change? henrya

You can. If, in Word you take the Options menu then the View menu you have lots of options to show changes in format, including format markings &c. Switch appropriate ones on and changes of font, paragraphing, spacing &c &c are indicated.
Commonly unexpected changes are due to an accidental Ctrl or Alt combination (e.g. Ctrl & B will embolden following text). Alternatively people use old documents as templates or edit an old document and don't realie that formatting commands are hidden in the text.

However, I do agree that there are far too many of us using programmes without any training; also Word is now such an enormous programme which can do almost anything you want if you wanted them. I don't think I've needed any of the new features that have been introduced over ten years or possibly more; If I did, I would have to ask someone else how to do it! All of these features, for most users, are simply a confusion!

[thunder]

My comments in red.

Originally Posted by Paul mabbott

how can you be so sure that you've not done something - pressing the alt or ctrl keys at the same time as other keys, unknowingly, can do all sorts of thingss!

I can be pretty sure - it happens too often for it to be a mispressed key, especially as it happens when I'm being ultra careful in an attempt to avoid it happening!

You can. If, in Word you take the Options menu then the View menu you have lots of options to show changes in format, including format markings &c. Switch appropriate ones on and changes of font, paragraphing, spacing &c &c are indicated.

Sounds as if that might be just the thing I need - will try it next time I have problems. Many thanks for the tip.

However, I do agree that there are far too many of us using programmes without any training; also Word is now such an enormous programme which can do almost anything you want if you wanted them. I don't think I've needed any of the new features that have been introduced over ten years or possibly more; If I did, I would have to ask someone else how to do it! All of these features, for most users, are simply a confusion!

I think that this may be the crux of the matter. I expect most people really need something very basic, a WORD Lite, as it were.

Henry

[Jim Ford]

Abiword is a sort of Word-Lite and will do most of what people want from a word processor:

AbiWord: Take a Tour

One of the reviews states:

"A master carpenter would neither drive a finishing nail with a sledgehammer nor trim a tabletop with a chain saw.
Such a craftsperson needs tools that are small, versatile and cheap.
One such tool — for writers and anybody who needs to kick out anything from a short memo or letter to a full-length report — is AbiWord."

Jim

[Bobbobthebob]

Originally Posted by Lancashire Lad

I still say that users will typically condemn a program, when more often than not it is their erroneous keying which is the root cause of the problems. I don’t recall in the many years of helping out company colleagues, one instance where the Word program itself was at fault.

^^This a thousand times over. I frequently have users complaining about a problem and immediately blaming Windows for it. It seems to be a default conclusion drawn even when the user couldn’t possibly know the cause. Frequently it’s a user fault or an external problem (eg they can’t access a network folder when the file server has gone down).

Macs have an “it just works” reputation. This is built on excellent interface design and rather restrictive use policies (see how they vet and censor apps on iOS, how you need to buy Apple hardware in order to run Mac OS etc) that ultimately act as a form of quality and user experience control. They also seem to automate a lot of processes without asking for user input, for a basic user, this will seem great as there’s very little configuration to cause any confusion.

For people who feel they are sufficiently IT-literate, a lot of this will swing over to becoming quite galling. That intuitive interface becomes a slow one that doesn’t tell you exactly what it’s doing and doesn’t ask for permission before doing things. Trying to get Macs to play nice with other machines (and specifically with active directory) in a large networked environment can be expensive and irritating. To me that degree of inflexibility and the expense have kept me away from Macs (mainly the expense!).

Finally the “Macs don’t get viruses” or “Macs are more secure” is a little bit wobbly. It is to a certain extent an element of security through obscurity. The market-share of Mac users is such that they simply aren’t targeted that often. Microsoft is combatting exploits several orders of magnitude greater in number and has implemented a few things that Macs have only done partially (a technology called ASLR comes to mind). As Macs become more popular we’ll get a better idea of how their security holds up.

I don’t mean to completely poo-poo Macs, they’re pretty good and can be excellent depending on your needs, but they're just not the all-out objective winners vs PCs in all cases.

In summary:

• Stick with what you know if this is going to be your one and only computer.
• When something doesn’t work on a Windows PC, please consider trying to find out the cause before blaming Windows.
• Check that whatever you go with is compatible with the software you need and that your platform’s version of the software supports all the kinds of usage you need to get out of it. Otherwise you may find you need to set up a VM on your new computer anyway with the other OS installed on it just for certain programs.
• Speaking of VMs: download VMWare player (free) and give a Linux distro a spin sometime!

[Jim Ford]

Originally Posted by Bobbobthebob

[*]Speaking of VMs: download VMWare player (free) and give a Linux distro a spin sometime!

I use 'VirtualBox'. It works a treat, particularly useful with the 'Turnkey' systems.

Jim

[alge]

Originally Posted by Bobbobthebob

^^This a thousand times over. I frequently have users complaining about a problem and immediately blaming Windows for it. It seems to be a default conclusion drawn even when the user couldn’t possibly know the cause. Frequently it’s a user fault or an external problem (eg they can’t access a network folder when the file server has gone down).

Macs have an “it just works” reputation. This is built on excellent interface design and rather restrictive use policies (see how they vet and censor apps on iOS, how you need to buy Apple hardware in order to run Mac OS etc) that ultimately act as a form of quality and user experience control. They also seem to automate a lot of processes without asking for user input, for a basic user, this will seem great as there’s very little configuration to cause any confusion.

For people who feel they are sufficiently IT-literate, a lot of this will swing over to becoming quite galling. That intuitive interface becomes a slow one that doesn’t tell you exactly what it’s doing and doesn’t ask for permission before doing things. Trying to get Macs to play nice with other machines (and specifically with active directory) in a large networked environment can be expensive and irritating. To me that degree of inflexibility and the expense have kept me away from Macs (mainly the expense!).

Finally the “Macs don’t get viruses” or “Macs are more secure” is a little bit wobbly. It is to a certain extent an element of security through obscurity. The market-share of Mac users is such that they simply aren’t targeted that often. Microsoft is combatting exploits several orders of magnitude greater in number and has implemented a few things that Macs have only done partially (a technology called ASLR comes to mind). As Macs become more popular we’ll get a better idea of how their security holds up.

I don’t mean to completely poo-poo Macs, they’re pretty good and can be excellent depending on your needs, but they're just not the all-out objective winners vs PCs in all cases.

In summary:

• Stick with what you know if this is going to be your one and only computer.
• When something doesn’t work on a Windows PC, please consider trying to find out the cause before blaming Windows.
• Check that whatever you go with is compatible with the software you need and that your platform’s version of the software supports all the kinds of usage you need to get out of it. Otherwise you may find you need to set up a VM on your new computer anyway with the other OS installed on it just for certain programs.
• Speaking of VMs: download VMWare player (free) and give a Linux distro a spin sometime!

Pretty fair assessment 3bobs, if you want a tool and not a hobby get a mac