Two moths for confirmation/ID please

[Pete Collins]

Firstly, is it possible two tell which of the two Copper Underwing species this is?



I think this second one may be a badly worn Feathered Gothic (a species I do see here):



Thanks!

[Julian Howe]

Hi Pete,

I struggle with copper underwings, looking at the copper markings on underside of hindwing, never seems that easy either! So not sure on this one.


I think you are right with the 2nd one, faded feathered gothic for me

Cheers,

Julian

[MetalMoth]

I know that lots of people, including moth experts, record all Copper Underwings as Copper Underwing Agg. It is very difficult to separate the two and very subjective. Kind of like Common Rustic and Lesser Common Rustic and the Marbled Minor group.

[Pete Collins]

Thanks very much Julian and MetalMoth.

[Jason Green]

Originally Posted by Pete Collins

Firstly, is it possible two tell which of the two Copper Underwing species this is?

View the palps anteriorly - that's what I've heard.

[poschiavanus]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

View the palps anteriorly - that's what I've heard.

No longer accepted by (at least) Colin Plant, county recorder for Herts: see his Moths of Hertfordshire for reasons.

In general I've never found it too difficult to get a decent view of the hindwing when I've had time to do so. On the other hand I've only had plain Copper Underwing in the garden, so don't tend to bother any more and record the aggregate.

[Pete Collins]

Originally Posted by Jason Green

View the palps anteriorly - that's what I've heard.

View the what, where?

Originally Posted by poschiavanus

No longer accepted by (at least) Colin Plant, county recorder for Herts: see his Moths of Hertfordshire for reasons.

In general I've never found it too difficult to get a decent view of the hindwing when I've had time to do so. On the other hand I've only had plain Copper Underwing in the garden, so don't tend to bother any more and record the aggregate.

It's Colin Plant that I report my moth records to, as though Kensworth is now in Bedfordshire it was in Hertfordshire at the time that they defined the 'vice-counties'.

I've recorded it as an 'agg', anyway.

Thanks for all your comments!

[Adam Cheeseman]

For Copper Underwing Pete you need to see if the copper colour bleaches through the dark band on the underside of the hindwing. If it does it's Svensson's, if not and stops at the dark line, which seems more likely, then it's plain old Copper Underwing.

Cheers,

Adam

[Pete Collins]

Thanks Adam, I'll remember that next time.

They are both nice moths, anyway.