White-marked?

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by MetalMoth

Field Guide to the Moths of Great Britain and Ireland: Amazon.co.uk: Paul Waring, Martin Townsend, Richard Lewington: Books

This is the one!

I am not entirely sure what you are getting at in your past post. To my mind the book should be considered the most accurate thing to use for an ID. I agree that we should consult photographs to help but really the book is better than an isolated photo.

You should send the picture of yours to your county recorder and ask them what they think.

Accurate it will be, but the point I am making is that there are always going to be exceptions to the rule. If you look at a wide variety of photos of the White-marked you will see that many don't have a lot more white on them.

An isolated photo compared with what I would say are reliable photos, looking very much the same, is not so isolated and one should always keep an open mind.

Yes, that is the book on Amazon. Trouble is there are so many micro moths as well, and I get a lot of those so where do we draw the line on buying books which can cost an arm and a leg. So far I am doing fairly well using reliable web sites, but I do agree a good book has it's advantages. Once you get through the original fog when first trying to ID moths it becomes a little easier.

The last time I sent a rarer moth to my county recorder I received no reply which is not at all encouraging!

[Julian Howe]

A photographic guide by Chris Manley, has both micros and macros, not all micros obviously, but is a useful guide.

I know most on here prefer Waring & Townsend for macros, I must admit the drawings are excellent. The photos in Manley aren't always the best.

[JRsbugs]

Thanks Julian, I came across that one on Amazon and they gave a view of some of the pages inside which I was quite impressed with!

It seems both books have a lot to offer, but with so many micros it still leaves a void. It would be great to have the best of both books in one, with all micros as well but I imagine that would cost a bomb!

I wonder if anyone could do it at a reasonable price, it would surely be a very popular book.

[Julian Howe]

I find the best way forward with micros, is to go to Norfolk or Hants moths and go to flying tonight, usually (not always though!) I find the micro I'm looking for.

Hopefully Mr Lewington et al will produce a complete guide to micros one day, but could take an awful long time!

[nutmeg]

Originally Posted by Julian Howe

I find the best way forward with micros, is to go to Norfolk or Hants moths and go to flying tonight, usually (not always though!) I find the micro I'm looking for.

Hopefully Mr Lewington et al will produce a complete guide to micros one day, but could take an awful long time!

Lewington is currently working on micro guide. Looking forward to it

[MetalMoth]

Originally Posted by JRsbugs

Accurate it will be, but the point I am making is that there are always going to be exceptions to the rule. If you look at a wide variety of photos of the White-marked you will see that many don't have a lot more white on them.

An isolated photo compared with what I would say are reliable photos, looking very much the same, is not so isolated and one should always keep an open mind.

Yes, that is the book on Amazon. Trouble is there are so many micro moths as well, and I get a lot of those so where do we draw the line on buying books which can cost an arm and a leg. So far I am doing fairly well using reliable web sites, but I do agree a good book has it's advantages. Once you get through the original fog when first trying to ID moths it becomes a little easier.

The last time I sent a rarer moth to my county recorder I received no reply which is not at all encouraging!

Yes there will always be exceptions to the rule, I agree. Which is why in the book where a species is very variable most/all of its common variations are illustrated. For example with the Ingrailed Clay it has 9 illustrations. These 9 should pretty cover all of its variation and allow you to identify one if you got it. So my point is that the illustrations in the book will have been based on many specimens and tried to capture the variation found. I agree that photos should be used to aid ID but I do not think they should be solely used. I agree that with many moths you can get a correct ID from using accurate photos on the internet. You have to make sure you use reliable websites though.

And then of course you have with photographs the problems of light differences between photos, people using different cameras and lenses and people maybe even applying photo editing to pics. So you see two photos of the same species could look very different due to these kinds of factors. When using a book which has a standardised illustrations it is much more accurate. You also have the descriptions next to the illustrations which tell you what features to look for on the wing. Much more accurate.

As others have said there is a Micro book in the pipeline from Lewington so I would wait and buy that. I cannot wait for it as I wish I could do Micros but there arent many good books for them. If you get either the Concise guide of the Field guide they cover all Macro species in the UK so you wont have to buy more books.

The photographic guide mentioned is ok, I dont have it but have used it before. However the photos have been edited a great deal in it and so consequently often look weird. Also a lot of the pictures arent very good in it.

[MetalMoth]

Oh and also regarding your county recorder. You should try again with them, they should really reply to you. Maybe give them a ring or something!