More moths for ID please!

[JennyS]

Below are some more moths that I'd appreciate identification for, and also if anyone could suggest a good total-beginners book I could get that would give me an idea of how to start identifying them please!

Q1. April 2010


Q2. July 2007


Q3. Six-spot Burnet? July 2008


Q4. August 2008


Q5. June 2010


Q6. June 2010


I hadn't realised there were so many different moths until I started searching the UK and Irish websites for possible IDs!

[aeshna5]

I'm not 100% sure on all these, but I'll go for:

1 Mottled Beauty
2 Common Swift
3 6-spot Burnet
4 Brimstone
5 Silver-ground Carpet

No idea on last one.

[RobSutton]

I'd be going for Engrailed for No.1 rather than Mottled Beauty and I think the last one is a Dark Spectacle.

As to books the two I'd recommend are Concise Guide to Moths of Great Britain and Ireland by Martin Townsend and Paul Waring and British Moths and Butterflies by Chris Manley. The first has some superb illustrations by Richard Lewington and the second is a photographic guide and between them they cover most possibilities.

[JennyS]

Thank you both for the IDs, and also for the books recommendation.

I'm a bit confused though, as the one IDed as Silver-ground Carpet


looks very different to this one also IDed as Silver-ground Carpet in my post Micro-moths for ID please

[poschiavanus]

Hi Jenny,

I was going to go with Spectacle for No. 6, but having seen RobSutton's comment have looked more closely and agree with him that and for No 1, and with aeshna5 on the others.

As for Silver-ground Carpets. The first one was a real puzzle, but focus on the following features. Firstly, two dark dots in the middle of the forewing: they are obvious in both images. Secondly the shape of the central crossline shows a prominent tooth just below the second dot. Thirdly, there is a finely scalloped pale outer crossline visible in both pictures.

I still don't know if I'm right, but its these features which suggested Silver-ground Carpet, plus the facts that its very common and is known to be quite variable. I certainly cant see any other larentiine (carpets and pugs) with all three features together.

HTH,

Posch

[JennyS]

Thanks Posch - as an utter totally-clueless beginner what are the features that I should be looking at and comparing when it comes to trying to work out IDs?

This one has made me realise it could be as bad or even worse than lichen identification!

[Phil Whiley]

HI Jenny,

In your two images of the Silver Ground Carpet, it looks like the second one was on a window? If so that might explain the apparent differences. Moths on windows can look quite a bit different - markings and colours can change due to the differences in the light entering the lens. It's fooled me several times.

Regards
Phil

[poschiavanus]

Originally Posted by JennyS

Thanks Posch - as an utter totally-clueless beginner what are the features that I should be looking at and comparing when it comes to trying to work out IDs?

This one has made me realise it could be as bad or even worse than lichen identification!

No, trust me, its a lot easier!

I think the things which tend to be neglected at the outset are close attention to size and wing shape. The first is hard to do from photos, but often makes it relatively straightforward to eliminate some species. The second can be much subtler, but I've heard expert mothers say that they can identify most moths on shape alone. There's been some recent posts, for instance, on the difference between Mottled and Willow Beauties, which I've found useful.

There are also a whole range of behavioural clues, which don't tendto get into the field guides. When I first caught The Flame and tried to get photos it played dead, and then scuttled off into a gutter. Only then did I realise what effective camouflage it had: and the behaviour went with the disguise. Some moths sit placidly on the sheet, others slink away (Heart and Dart), whereas a few fly up and spin round the light again.

Lastly there are flight times and habitat. I make extensive use of the Norfolk Moths web site which has a list of "Flight Arrivals" with nice thumbnail photos. It's really useful to have an idea of the most common moths on the wing at the time of year. Although, now in my third year of garden trapping I can pretty much predict the catch.

It's also always worth capturing new moths, keep them in the fridge overnight, and then examine and photograph them in daylight. There are often a lot of extra features which aren't described in the field guides for reasons of space, but which will be visible in the better photos on the web. The smaller ones tend to shoot off, but the big ones tend to be sluggish enough to get good photographs.

HTH,

posch