Case moths

[charlieb]

What about...

http://www.gardensafari.net/pics/nac...a_hs1_5682.jpg
http://www.lucianabartolini.net/Imma...i/DSCN2261.jpg
Zakjesdrager. on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Picasa Web Albums - Martin Gust Germany

Look at the case opening as well as the markings

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by charlieb

What about...

http://www.gardensafari.net/pics/nac...a_hs1_5682.jpg
http://www.lucianabartolini.net/Imma...i/DSCN2261.jpg
Zakjesdrager. on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Picasa Web Albums - Martin Gust Germany

Look at the case opening as well as the markings

I was about to ask Ken to take away my gold star, lol.

But then I went back to UKmoths and checked what I found in the first place which to me definitely ruled out Psyche casta. Perhaps a 'case' of people calling something which is most known, and thus copied one from the other like we have here with Calliphora vomitoria. (I know, you will all soon get fed up with me citing that one!)

UKMoths - Psyche casta

[charlieb]

But UKMoths doesn't have any photos of Psyche casta larva (except the tincy wincy ones) - the rest are females?

[diggleken]

This is fun!
Gold star still in place for all the hard work.
Thanks both, illuminating stuff.....................
Psyche casta - mmmhhh - the images via charlie also look very good for the caterpillar markings and case opening.
However, just a thought from my inexperienced mind, I havent mentioned size before, isnt psyche casta quite small and presumably larvae acordingly?
I noted around 25mm on one site for the larval case - this one was quite a bit larger - around 40 - 50 mm length.
Janet, one of your links you mentioned pic 2a, but it might be nearer 1a on that site, which was Pachytelia unicolor. That , besides 2a is the right size, and markings and case opening seem close, so maybe a possibility?
I gather , please correct me if wrong,that the case inceases in size as they reach maturity/get older, as the first case is either small and silky and builds up over time with their habitat bits or the previous generation case is taken over and is also added to, so size may not be such an issue????
This case appears to be a mixture of plant debris including twigs, herbs and spiny shrubs, but no obvious needles.
Slightly better closeup here.
Plus , just out of interest a field cricket!
Cheers
Ken

[charlieb]

The problem with my images, as Janet says they may well be mis-id'd - none were from "reputable" sources - however they are very similar to yours!

With regards to case length, I guess it depends on what it uses to build it with?

[diggleken]

Originally Posted by charlieb

The problem with my images, as Janet says they may well be mis-id'd - none were from "reputable" sources - however they are very similar to yours!

With regards to case length, I guess it depends on what it uses to build it with?

Hi charlie, totally agree, same with fungi pics, older bird books etc, not always correct ID's and thus the misID continues!
And yes, what we can see is the same markings, but we are still struggling I think.
Maybe just leave it as Psychidae or as Janet suggests at genus level.
I suspect that in practical terms, they would start building onto the silky 'cocoon' with small stuff, then whatever they can find, normally immediate habitat and food plant material, but I bet they arent that fussy really! Eventually the case must get to a point when its too bulky to drag around, so they would limit it in size after a point - I wonder if anyones done any research on that!
Cheers
Ken

[JRsbugs]

Originally Posted by charlieb

But UKMoths doesn't have any photos of Psyche casta larva (except the tincy wincy ones) - the rest are females?

Charlie, have you tried to enlarge those tincy wincy pics? LOL!

Ken, haven't yet checked out the 1a pic, but a thought came to me about the orange 'skin'.

The specimens on the Italian site are probaly pickled, then cut open. There has to be an inner protective skin which they build their junk onto, that could be stuck to the body.

Re the growth, I have Luffia ferchaultella and have observed it regularly, now I have seen two which actually move but lately one seems to have stopped moving, and I have lost sight of the other.

The first one I saw disappeared for a while, it's on my wall. There appeared another smaller one which didn't have a dark end, i.e. was all the same colour tiny stones covering it where the first one had black stones on the tip. At about the same time I saw a slightly bigger than the first one, this time all black stones/sand (painted doorstep below!) with some greenish stones as a band around the middle. I think the first one may have left it's old case behind completely and built a new one.

In the same area I found three smaller cases, one appeared to be full, but not moving and still isn't, another has a very small opening at the tail end and seems to be empty so I'm guessing the casing is flexible enough to allow the larva to escape through the bottom as the top is well fixed to the wall still. The other one is almost all black, just around the corner on the west wall whereas the rest are on the south. It hasn't moved either, could be empty as the tail end I can see looks hollow.

On top of those, I found some cases on the trunk of the Oak tree not far away which were more covered in a blue lichen, which grows near the base of the tree on the south-west side but these are on the north-east side about eye level. One appears to be empty, the others haven't moved but I can't see any holes or end openings.

The biggest one I have seen at least twice more moving, once it was going up the side door, another time it was feeding on the wall. I haven't checked every day lately but want to find that one again!

That is thus far my knowledge on case moths.

[diggleken]

Thats probably enough for a PhD thesis these days...................
The Italian site was clearly using pickled specimens I agree, so the markings arent at all clear for comparison. What do you think of 1a and the size issue?
I gather the larva spins a silkish cocoon or tube, which is then added to with debris/materials as time goes by - and there are two openings, presumably the rear for faecal matter etc whilst the front for movement, which is achieved by spinning threads attached to the substrate and moving forward on those.
But also , some spp lay eggs in the case, then hatch and devour the female, so then they use the old case.
I wondered if mine were ascending high up the church wall to be more noticeable to the adult males or to overwinter safely below the eaves ???
Cheers
Ken

[JRsbugs]

I've checkled out 1a, the name 'unicolor' for a start suggests one colour. The pic of the caterpillar underneath is one colour. The caterillar of 2a at least shows some patterning but they are not the best drawings of caterpillars, also could be showing a very immature stage.

I searched for P. unicolor, found a site with a few case moths. The name is different, but if you go to the species list above the pic, click on P. unicolor it comes up with the same pic. Going to the family Psychidae on the left column brings up thumbnails, hover your arrow over it and you will find all the synonyms.

hirsuta (=unicolor) -

Go to the top 'Gallery' link afterwards, it lookd to be a good site!

Look also at the 'catalogue' where you will find many more pics.

[JRsbugs]

Ken, interesting Field Cricket BTW! Did you want an ID for that too?

I looked for my Luffia ferchaultella (I can spell that now without looking!) today, still no sign of the big one on the wall. It must be at a mature stage as it was 7mm or so long. I decided to check those on the tree too, three which I had seen have also completely disappeared but there's a big one on the south side. My guess is it's time to lay eggs, and perhaps hide in a warmer place for the winter but they took their cases with them. That may be what yours was doing but Luffia ferchaultella is supposed to be female only, they don't really know! I doubt mine were eaten as I think I would have seen some case remains, unless a bird picked the lot off.

The empty case with a hole at the top end is still there but I think with a slightly bigger hole. I took a pic and you can see the inner lining. Look at this one also on ukmoths, the larva does have a paler inner casing but I imagine as they were not mature they were taken out of their cases, the mature one doesn't have this.

UKMoths - Luffia ferchaultella