Elephant Hawk Moth caterpillar worries!

[Rebelwolf]

Whilst gardening on Tuesday (11th Aug 2009) my partner, Paul, rescued an Elephant Hawk Moth caterpillar (now named Cecil!) which almost found his way into the compost bin! I quickly searched on Google for details regarding rearing EHM caterpillars and came across this site where I found the information I needed. We were then able to create a 'home' for Cecil - a large deep tub with a kitchen paper liner at the bottom and 2-3 inches of potting compost. We hunted down some willowherb and Cecil spent a happy evening 'eating for England'!



Yesterday morning (12th) he was very active but wouldn't eat so I popped out and bought a couple of fuschia plants and changed his food. He still didn't seem interested in eating but remained active all day.

This morning he appears to have gone underground completely so I am assuming he is preparing to pupate and this is where I am hoping to find more help and advice from the knowledgeable team on this site.

Firstly, approximately how long will it take Cecil to 'turn'? As I can't see him now, I don't want to disturb him or do anything that might harm or interfere with this process.

Secondly, we don't have anywhere cool at the moment to keep the cocoon. We had planned to keep him in the loft, which gets really cold in the winter, but due to the warm weather we're having, it is still too warm up there. Whilst I don't want to risk him emerging too soon, I am also wondering if other EHM caterpillars are pupating around now and, as we are in for more warm humid weather, whether they will emerge early, too. Is it possible we will get a second emergence of the EHM this year? If so, should I allow Cecil to emerge early, too?

I'm sorry for all the questions but this is my first time as a caterpillar/moth mummy, lol, and I am really concerned about doing the right thing for Cecil - I so want to help him become the beautiful moth he is destined to be.

Helping Cecil reach maturity means a great deal to me. It was the discovery of an EHM 5 years ago on my garden fence that began my fascination and interest in moths which helped me overcome an irrational fear that I'd had of them since childhood.

I would appreciate any help and advice anyone can give me. Thank you so much

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by Rebelwolf

Firstly, approximately how long will it take Cecil to 'turn'?

He should emerge between May and July next year. (Although that depends on the next question)

Originally Posted by Rebelwolf

Secondly, we don't have anywhere cool at the moment to keep the cocoon.

No out buildings or sheds? Maybe you could keep him under a plant pot outside?

Originally Posted by Rebelwolf

Whilst I don't want to risk him emerging too soon, I am also wondering if other EHM caterpillars are pupating around now and, as we are in for more warm humid weather, whether they will emerge early, too. Is it possible we will get a second emergence of the EHM this year?

Unless you live in a cave, your house will be far warmer than any outside conditions - I don't know of any second generation EHM, they may be limited by their large size, requiring a minimum pupation time.

Conditions inside houses aren't usually suited to pupating larva, what with central heating, low humidity etc. - the best place for them to pupate is outside. In my experience the smaller larvae seem to fair ok inside, maybe because they pupate quicker and have less time for things to go wrong.

Good luck!

[Rebelwolf]

Thanks so much for the quick response, Charlie.

We have a garage but it get's very warm in there even in the winter. We have no shed or outbuildings, though. Sadly, we have no garden or plants due to my partner having severe hayfever. We have a small lawn on the front with a narrow border that requires weeding now and then - that's what Paul was doing when he found Cecil. Our neighbours have a beautiful garden with plants like honeysuckle which I suspect is where Cecil was originally laid.

However, we do have a large patio and your idea of a plant pot, placed in the corner, sounds perfect. Do I leave him in the continer he is currently in and just pop a large plant pot over that?

Also, I read it was important to keep them dry to avoid fungal infections etc. What would be the best way to deal with heavy rain? Would it be OK to put Cecil and the plant pot in a small rabbit hutch for instance to afford some protection from the really wet weather?

Finally...I would love to take some photos of his cocoon - will that be possible or should he remain untouched now until he finally emerges, bearing in mind he has buried himself?

Thanks again for the speedy response - I'm feeling much happier about his prospects already

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by Rebelwolf

Do I leave him in the continer he is currently in and just pop a large plant pot over that?

Yeah, I would just put the plant pot over the top of the container (without a lid). I would recommend putting a (quite substantial!) twig or two under the flower pot in case he emerges - he'll need something to hang on on which to expand his wings. If by May he hasn't emerged, you can bring him inside and keep a daily watch on him (again a couple of twigs will be a good idea). By then other EHMs will be starting to emerge.

Originally Posted by Rebelwolf

Also, I read it was important to keep them dry to avoid fungal infections etc. What would be the best way to deal with heavy rain?

Yes and no Too wet and they will rot, too dry and they will fail to emerge. I would have thought under a flower pot (maybe with something covering the drainage hole) should be fine. As he'll be in his container, a "flash flood" over the patio shouldn't get to him.

Originally Posted by Rebelwolf

Finally...I would love to take some photos of his cocoon - will that be possible or should he remain untouched now until he finally emerges

As tempting as it is, I would leave him be. EHMs spin a cocoon and then pupate - the cocoon not only protects the pupa, but also aids the moth in removing the pupa (as the moth emerges from the pupa it's a able to break through cocoon, leaving the pupa behind). If he successfully emerges, you'll have a empty pup left behind - they don't damage them to much when emerging and keep surprisingly well

[Rebelwolf]

Thank you again, Charlie - I feel much better now! I shall pop him under a plant pot with some big twigs and just keep an eye on him to make sure he doesn't pop back up from the soil and need feeding or that he doesn't emerge early and need releasing.

If I get any issues, I know where to come for some help Thanks again - hopefully I'll be posting photos of a beautiful EHM next summer

[jimiboy]

Hello Charlie - I'm new to this, so I hope I'm getting through.

We have an EHM in a plastic container, presently in the house. Until yesterday he was happily feeding on fuschia flowers and leaves, on a bed of kitchen towel. Yesterday afternoon he wrapped himself in the layers of paper towel. My wife is afraid that this isn't the right thing for him to be in during the pupating period. She thinks he should be in earth and leaves.
The question is: Is it a bad idea to disturb him? Should we leave him be. Or would it be okay to unwrap him gently and add soil to the container?

Any help will be appreciated.
Jimiboy

[charlieb]

Hi Jimiboy,

I would leave it be - whilst paper towel isn't it's natural substrate to pupate in, it's a good substitute. When it's pupated, I would stick it outside, somewhere sheltered so it emerges along with the rest of the EHM next year (May - July).

[jimiboy]

Thanks for replying so quickly, Charlie. That sounds like common sense. The anxiety level in the household is reduced.

J.

[naturegirl]

Elephant hawk moth pupae do best in the outdoor soil where the pupal case is held firmly so they can emerge in the late Spring next year.

As long as this is not waterlogged during winter then they will be ok and are best left alone.

Naturegirl

[jimiboy]

Hi Charlie,

more anxiety - the paper towel that our Elephant Hawk wrapped himself in
has a darkish stain that seeped through. Could it be the natural byproduct of the process or the sign of something gone wrong?

Thanks,
Jimiboy