Cinnabar moth query

[kiltoncomp]

a couple of questions about the Cinnabar moth,
while taking this picture today in Clumber park, I noticed that whenever the camera lens got near the caterpillar, it would wave its head about vigorously,
is this a defence mechanism they have in addition to their being toxic due to the ragwort they feed on?

Second question is, as Ragwort is an introduced plant, is the Cinnabar moth also an introduced species, or has it adapted to the plant ?, which seem unlikely to me,

I was pleased to see large numbers of these caterpillars in evidence, as I remember this being quite a common species when I was younger(a lot )
and there does not seem to be as many around these days, like lots of other things too





Brian

[charlieb]

Originally Posted by kiltoncomp

it would wave its head about vigorously, is this a defence mechanism

Well did you eat any? Yes it is a defence mechanism - makes the predator hesitate, bashes it on the head etc. might accentuate the markings or spread toxic chemical smell?

Originally Posted by kiltoncomp

as Ragwort is an introduced plant

Oxford ragwort Senecio squalidus isn't (and many others aren't) native but Senecio jacobaea, common ragwort is.

[Neil Jones]

There has been a campaign against ragwort. One of the consequences is that a lot of falsehoods are in circulation. The dangerousness of the plant is often over exaggerated. It is quite common to find even bodies like local councils classifying it, like my local council did, as a foreign invasive plant.

It is NATIVE and an important part of our ecology, supporting a lot of wildlife.

see:
Ragwort - Common myths
Ragwort, myths and facts
and
Ragwort the myths and the hoaxes debunked
For the myths
and also Buglife the Invertebrate Conservation Trust
Debunking myths and explaining its value.

Buglife | Ragwort | Ragwort: Yellow Peril or Precious Flower?

Amongst the many urban myths is one that handling it can cause cancer or liver damage.
That is also dealt with by the links provided.

[kiltoncomp]

thanks for that very enlightening reply, it certainly shows what the true facts are about ragwort,
i have a friend who has horses, who insists that ragwort is lethal for her horses!, but in one of the fields, the ragwort has been grazed around but left untouched by the horses,
on the spread of ragwort, our local council has a blitz on the plant growing on roadside verges, they have teams of men pulling up the plant and throwing it into the back of an open lorry, it is usually going to seed by the time they do this, so in consequence they spread the seed over a greater area as the seeds blow from the back of the lorry as it drives along the roads !

i was suprised to note that the pyrroizidine alkaloids are also found in comfrey plant, which is a plant used in herbal medicines,

thanks,
Brian.

Originally Posted by Neil Jones

There has been a campaign against ragwort. One of the consequences is that a lot of falsehoods are in circulation. The dangerousness of the plant is often over exaggerated. It is quite common to find even bodies like local councils classifying it, like my local council did, as a foreign invasive plant.

It is NATIVE and an important part of our ecology, supporting a lot of wildlife.

see:
Ragwort - Common myths
Ragwort, myths and facts
and
Ragwort the myths and the hoaxes debunked
For the myths
and also Buglife the Invertebrate Conservation Trust
Debunking myths and explaining its value.

Buglife | Ragwort | Ragwort: Yellow Peril or Precious Flower?

Amongst the many urban myths is one that handling it can cause cancer or liver damage.
That is also dealt with by the links provided.

[earthdragon64]

Originally Posted by kiltoncomp

thanks for that very enlightening reply, it certainly shows what the true facts are about ragwort,
i have a friend who has horses, who insists that ragwort is lethal for her horses!, but in one of the fields, the ragwort has been grazed around but left untouched by the horses,
on the spread of ragwort, our local council has a blitz on the plant growing on roadside verges, they have teams of men pulling up the plant and throwing it into the back of an open lorry, it is usually going to seed by the time they do this, so in consequence they spread the seed over a greater area as the seeds blow from the back of the lorry as it drives along the roads !

i was suprised to note that the pyrroizidine alkaloids are also found in comfrey plant, which is a plant used in herbal medicines,

thanks,
Brian.

I agree that there is a lot of hysteria about, however, Ragwort is poisonous to horses, I have personal knowledge of two (not mine) who died from Ragwort poisoning, which was confirmed by a post-mortem.

The problem isn't when it's growing, horses will avoid it and graze around it, however, if there is a lot in a field, it can be trampled and broken, then when it dries out, the horses don't recognise it as dangerous and may eat it. Problems can also be caused if it grows in a hayfield and gets into the hay.

As long as Ragwort is kept out of grazing fields and fields that are used for haymaking, there shouldn't be a problem with it elsewhere.

[Adam Cheeseman]

The vast majority of reported Ragwort poisoning cases in livestock (over 90% I seem to recall) are caused by animals being fed hay that has ragwort in it, and not them grazing on the live plant. Most animals will avoid it after learning from an initial nibble that it is not good for them. Some individuals (mostly cows) will eat it without any apparent effect to them.

Cheers,

Adam

[Neil Jones]

Originally Posted by kiltoncomp

i was suprised to note that the pyrroizidine alkaloids are also found in comfrey plant, which is a plant used in herbal medicines,

thanks,
Brian.

They are extremely common chemicals in plants. They occur in 3% of plant species globally. This puts all the fuss into context.

Ragwort itself has, historically, been used as a herbal medicine. One of the things it has been used to treat is, rather ironically, hysteria.

[kiltoncomp]

thanks to all for your knowledgeable replys, i certainly found them very informative, and came away with a different out look on the poor old Ragwort,
i used to pull it up whenever i passed one, but will be leaving well alone in the future, if only for the benefit if the Cinnebars

many thanks,
Brian.