Please help me - Elephant Hawk Moth disaster!

[Silver_Skydancer]

Hi there,

Last winter my Dad found and Elephant Hawk Moth Cocoon in a big puddle. It was very lucky, as he saved it from drowing. He took it home and put it in a container lined with kitchenroll. However, I'm afraid to say that we're no moth experts, and we did no research into how to bring it up, so we know now that we probably should have put it outsidein the shed where it wasn't so warm, but our lives are so busy that we didn't have time to look it up.

Anyhow, a couple of nights ago the moth hatched out, and we were very excited, because we thought it was dead. There was a problem, though. We left it for hours, nearly half a day, and it still only had it's head out. We thought that hanging it upside-down might help, and it did, and it got out a bit more, but it still had problems, so we helped it by gently poking the skin of the cocoon. It's wings were finally out, but the end part where the 'butt' as such is is solid as a rock, and it wouldn't come off.

Once again, being very inexperienced (this is the first moth we've ever tried to raise), we didn't know it needed to climb up a branch and open it's wings. However, it did try to flutter it's wings open anyway, but they wouldn't open up, even when we held it upside down, and they're still brown and crumpled. It's a day or two on now, so I'm really really worried that it's too late for this guy. We've put him in a container with a branch that he's now clinging to, and he has lots of nectarrich flowers, but he isn't moving around at all, and I know that he should be able to fly by now. He isn't looking the lovely pink and green colour he should be looking either. He just made no effort to get out of the cocoon, I'm wondering if the puddle could have effected him...we had no idea how long he was in there for.

To sum this up - should I try to carefully cut the remaining cocoon from his butt? Is there any way to save his wings? Basically, what can I do with him? I'm so worried, because he's such a beautiful creature - if he died it would be such a great waste. I've attatched some pictures of his current state here, sorry that they're not too brilliant.







Thanks a lot in advance to anyone who helps me,

Rachel

[Silver_Skydancer]

I'm sorry to bump this up so quickly, I'm just so worried that he'll die, and that the longer I leave him the harder it will be to save him

[Jason Green]

Of course - no apology necerrsary! As far as I am aware the coccoon is buried slightly in earth so when it comes to escaping it, it can climb out without the coccoon coming as well.

When they are artificially reared I believe the cocoons are hung upside down - again it is all based on the cocoon being tethered. I would suggest next time he moves you very gently grip the cocoon and hope he's strong enough to pull free of it.

Failing that, try gently removing it yourself being very mindful of his delicate wings - as you've already said!

Good luck, and well done.

[Silver_Skydancer]

Thanks for the reply! Should I maybe try and bury the end a little bit in the earth, so the next time that he does move it might pull off? It's literally as solid as a rock though, I'm not sure why it's so so hard. He barely moves though, so I don't know whether that would really work. I;m just worried he's growing weaker and weaker, and he doesn't seem to want to have any nectar/pollen from the flowers.
And about his wings, do you think that they still stand a chance? It has been 2/3 days now so I'm worried that they've already dried out crippled.

[Jason Green]

Yes, it doesn't sound that good, does it?

If he seems weak, maybe help him remove it, using tweezers if you have them? If it seems quite attached, try breaking tiny bits off being mindful that he may actually be internally stuck to it by now. Finally, if it really won't work and you feel that in attempting further may injure him - just be prepared to have a little pink pet!!

If his wings have dried deformed, then there really isn't anything you can do. Just hope they haven't.

Keep me posted please! Oh, and welcome to WAB!

[wildlifesnapper]

Hi

sorry to say that there isn't a lot you can do really.The pupal case will have dried on solid by now and it will probably do more harm to try and remove it than to leave it.The wings will not inflate now and will remain as they are as a moth has to climb almost as soon as it hatches to get them to inflate properly.
If you want to try and feed it try using some honey/sugar water ( 50/50 honey/water or if you have no honey some sugar well dissolved in water) and try un-curling it's tongue and getting the tip into the solution, it may start to drink.

Sorry I can't help more,

neil

[Silver_Skydancer]

Aww, that's so sad Well, I guess we all learn from our mistakes, and as my Dad keeps reminding me, it would have died a caterpillar if it wasn't saved from that puddle, so at least it had a bid more of a life. Will it be miserable if I let it live, or would it be nicer to kill it quickly? If the rest of the pupa on it's back won't harm it, I'd be quite willing to feed it diluted honey/sugar every day and give it the happiest life I can. It's just so terrible that it can't be a 'normal' moth, but if it'll still be reasonably happy I'll let him live his life. Thanks anyway for the help guys, it's really appriciated.

[Jason Green]

Pleasure! I'm sure it'll be happy...

Keep us updated!

[tristanba]

Hi Rachel,

If it's any consolation, even if it had been a healthy moth I doubt it would have gone on to reproduce as it has emerged so early, nearly two months before Elephant Hawk Moths are normally on the wing. It is really important to keep pupae at outdoor temperature so the adult moths emerge at the right time, but I'm sure you know this now.

Light-trapping is a great way to see and record the moths which are flying in your area - maybe you could look into doing this with your dad? You never know, you might even catch an Elephant Hawk Moth!

Best wishes
Tristan

[Dutchess]

That's an excellent suggestion, Tristan Something to look forward to.

So sorry to hear about your casualty, Rachel I wish you all the best with nursing him.

D.