Calling an Epirrita/November Moth expert!

[clicka15]

Hello again,

I have been getting a fairly regular inflow of Epirrita moths for the past week or so. I'm fairly satisfied they're November Moths, but a positive ID can only be made by studying the genitals (). I don't know how to do this!

I'd like to know which species they are for certain, so I have taken some photographs. I don't expect they are good enough to allow a satisfactory genital inspection (), but I was hoping someone could have a look and explain what I need to look at/for, etc.







I know there are some real experts out there, so I hope someone can help.

With thanks,
Steven.

[andy68]

Hi Steven

Unfortunately you can't identify Epirrita species from live moths, as the genitalia have to be extruded from the abdomen. On dead or set specimens, the males are very straightforward. I don't think there are illustrations of what to look for in any easily accessible books, though - I've got a photocopy from an entomological journal somewhere showing the different species. Let me know if you want a copy of it and I'll dig it out (if I can find it!) and scan it for you.

Andy

[clicka15]

Originally Posted by andy68

Hi Steven

Unfortunately you can't identify Epirrita species from live moths, as the genitalia have to be extruded from the abdomen.

I wondered if that might be the case. I think I'd rather keep them alive and be unsure!

Originally Posted by andy68

I've got a photocopy from an entomological journal somewhere showing the different species. Let me know if you want a copy of it and I'll dig it out (if I can find it!) and scan it for you.

Andy

Yes - that's a kind offer. If it's not too much hassle, I'd be most grateful. Let me know when you're ready and I'll post my email address.

Thanks for the advice,

Steven.

[tristanba]

it's possible to anaesthetise moths without killing them but you need a bit of practice... Waring & Townsend guide has figs. of male genitalia

[andy68]

I wouldn't recommend trying to look at genitalia on anaesthetized moths - at the very least you need to remove all the scales to see the structures properly, and at worst you could damage the moth.

Andy

[clicka15]

Originally Posted by andy68

I wouldn't recommend trying to look at genitalia on anaesthetized moths - at the very least you need to remove all the scales to see the structures properly, and at worst you could damage the moth.

Andy

Don't worry - I think I'll remain in blissful ignorance for the time being. I've only got the compact version of Waring, so don't have the pictures of moth genitalia.

Steve.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Andy68 would it be ok to email me a copy of the sheet too?! Sorry to Hijack you thread Clicka15 but I think that would be a very valuable resource. If you manage to lay your hands on it of course!!

Cheers Jacob

[andy68]

Likewise, I've only got the compact Waring, so I didn't realise they were illustrated in the full version.

If anyone wants a scan of the illustrations I've got, please send me a PM with your e-mail address.

Andy