Thursley 2008

[Gill Catton]

Hello1
i thought folks might be interested to read this about the recovery of the reserve from the fire...
Rare butterfly rises from the ashes at Thursley National Nature Reserve

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

Hello1
i thought folks might be interested to read this about the recovery of the reserve from the fire...
Rare butterfly rises from the ashes at Thursley National Nature Reserve

Thanks for posting that Gill.

Personally I wasn't surprised at the recovery - I lived on the edge of
Thursley common from about 54 - 67, and during that time we had two
large fires and several smaller ones. Recovery was always swift.

However in those days the common was much more heathland than it is
now, as, particularly at the Thursley higher end, there has been considerable
encroachment of birch and conifer - well parts of it are now like a forest
It was maintained as heathland by the army thrashing about in tanks
playing soldiers (apologies to DavyG!).

Indeed the moat itself had only a few scrubby birches around it as it
was used for tank driver training - and swimming, conaoeing and
mucking about by yours truly!

I suspect that the silver studded blue survived because their larvae are
taken underground by the black ants, and as they like short heather areas, the temperature of the fire will not have been that great.

They must have evolved a survival technique as heath does burn every
few years.

In the Fynbos botanical kingdom of Southern South Africa, there is an
actual dependence on fire to rgenerate the proteas, restios, mesembs etc.
They also have many species of flower that the ants take down below the
surface for a food store and I think a food for the fungus with which they
live a symbiotic life.

Germination is precipitated by temperature increase, but not the low temperature of the fire, but rather the rising soil temperature when the
vegetation cover has been removed by fire.

[Gill Catton]

Originally Posted by Hobjob

Thanks for posting that Gill.

Personally I wasn't surprised at the recovery - I lived on the edge of
Thursley common from about 54 - 67, and during that time we had two
large fires and several smaller ones. Recovery was always swift.

However in those days the common was much more heathland than it is
now, as, particularly at the Thursley higher end, there has been considerable
encroachment of birch and conifer - well parts of it are now like a forest
It was maintained as heathland by the army thrashing about in tanks
playing soldiers (apologies to DavyG!).

Indeed the moat itself had only a few scrubby birches around it as it
was used for tank driver training - and swimming, conaoeing and
mucking about by yours truly!

I suspect that the silver studded blue survived because their larvae are
taken underground by the black ants, and as they like short heather areas, the temperature of the fire will not have been that great.

They must have evolved a survival technique as heath does burn every
few years.

In the Fynbos botanical kingdom of Southern South Africa, there is an
actual dependence on fire to rgenerate the proteas, restios, mesembs etc.
They also have many species of flower that the ants take down below the
surface for a food store and I think a food for the fungus with which they
live a symbiotic life.

Germination is precipitated by temperature increase, but not the low temperature of the fire, but rather the rising soil temperature when the
vegetation cover has been removed by fire.

Yes its true there are numerous habitats across the world that are rather dependant on an occasional burning in order to thrive.

However it is good to see that Thursley - although just a fragment of the habitat that once was, is still large enough to able to survive. Here's hoping the Sand Lizard burrows were deep enough too! Although perhaps you get less silver-studded if there are more lizards!!

[dmclean2]

Hi Linda,
your No 7 pic is a meadow grasshopper ,
Elly and I had a great time with you all and shall certainly go again on an
other meet, when it comes up,
I have A moth or butterfly for ID, did anyone get a pic of this ? it was on the boardwalk,
Cheers Duncan

[dmclean2]

I had a read at that Gill,
I didn't realise that it was an out of control fire, I actually thought that it was a managed scrub and bracken burn, done by the management team,
I'm certainly glad that it is recovering well,
All the best,
Duncan

[John]

Hi Duncan

If you look at post 262 you will see that I have posted my photo of what is almost certainly a Large Skipper which looks to be freshly emerged.

John

Originally Posted by dmclean2

did anyone get a pic of this ? it was on the boardwalk,
Cheers Duncan

[Cheryl]

Originally Posted by dmclean2

I had a read at that Gill,
I didn't realise that it was an out of control fire, I actually thought that it was a managed scrub and bracken burn, done by the management team,
I'm certainly glad that it is recovering well,
All the best,
Duncan

I seem to recall that someone purposely set fire. I've read varying reports about the percentage destroyed ranging from 60% to 90% so it is good to see the recovery.

[Wild-Woman]

It was interesting to see the thousands of 'flight holes' in the trees that had very obviously been burnt in the fire. The holes were fresh, suggesting that many species of beetles and moth had been uneffected by the blaze. Indeed as David and Gill have said, some species of plant rely on he occasional fire in order to regenerate new growth. It nevers ceases to amaze me natures powers of recovery after these events that we perceive as disasterous.
I think sometimes we need to step back and just watch nature do it's thing.

[mrs fish]

Originally Posted by pressld2

Well Mrs Fish, these are dedicated to you...



The first photo is quite heavily cropped as the spider was the other side of a small stream. I had no wellies and couldn't tell how deep it was. Amazingly I didn't notice the egg sac at the time!

The second photo is uncropped as the spider was more accessible. The stick behind him was being wielded by Wild-Woman to help move some of the grass blades out of the way. Just after this shot was taken he ripped it out of her hands and chased her across the common with it!

Dave P.

That is a beauty

Just after this shot was taken he ripped it out of her hands and chased her across the common with it!

lol

[Tormentil]

Originally Posted by Tormentil

Here's some from Thursley that I need ID's for Please.

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

I'm sure I was told on the day what some of them are, but the memories not what it used to be.

#2 is a Meadow Grasshopper - Chorthippus parallelus

And #6 I think is Hair Moss Polytrichum commune

Just #1 & #5 to ID now.

[Ollie]

The only one I can be positive about is no 4 Ben and that's a Beautiful Yellow Underwing - Anarta myrtilli

Roger

[Tormentil]

Thanks Roger.

[Ollie]

Hi all.

I've finally finished editing all my photos I took at Thursley and I managed nine new species for me. A great result as far as I'm concerned.

It's been said before but I'm saying it again. A big thank you to Jules for organising this one and to everyone else who made this day as succesfull as it was.

There is just one one photo that I need a positive ID on. I think it's a Meadow Grasshopper but I aren't sure.

Roger

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by Ollie

I think it's a Meadow Grasshopper but I aren't sure.

Roger

I think it is too Roger. Jules was explaining to me that the black knees are a key feature for this species.

I abandoned my tax return and did some more editing last night so here are a few more of mine starting with...

Meadow grasshopper!



Some busy wood ants with a soldier on guard...



Bog asphodel...



Common Lizard...



And finally here's my take on the newly emerged Large Skipper - it seems most of us photographed this one!



Dave P.

[pressld2]

Here's a few more pics from Thursley, these are all from the Sunday:

A Brimstone spotted by Jules...



A mature male black darter...



A beautiful demoiselle...



And my favourite from the whole weekend, a couple of southern hawkers...



Normally these are only blue on the last three abdominal segments but "there is a rare form in which all abdominal segments have blue markings". Does anyone know how rare because both of these look all blue to me.

Here are a few landscapes. Some very heavy cloud on Saturday afternoon...



Fortunately it passed us by and we only had one very light shower. There were lovely blue skys by the evening...



And some light mist rising from the pond first thing on Sunday morning...



Dave P.

[catwasp]

Hello all,

This is my first post on the site

Really good to hear that Thursley common is recovering. I worked there a couple of years ago - I was studying a large population of digger wasps (Ammophila) which were thriving on the common. I may visit again soon to see if the population has recovered. Did anybody see any digger wasps when visiting Thursley?

[pressld2]

Hi catwasp and a warm welcome to WAB.

Yes we did see at least one digger wasp and you've reminded me that I don't yet have a confirmed ID for it. I think it's probably Ammophila pubescens...



Can you confirm or correct that ID? If not there's bound to be another member along soon who can!

Dave P.

[catwasp]

Thanks Dave for the warm welcome

I worked on Ammophila sabulosa at Thursley and suspect that is what you found as well. Someone may be able to correct me on that though.

Cx

[pressld2]

I think you're right catwasp. just been reading up on these two and pubescens is the smaller of the two at 12-20 mm. From memory I'd say this one was up at the 25mm top end of sabulosa's range. Also, although this is not a very good image...



... you can see a bit more of the waist which is long enough for sabulosa and the tip of the abdomen does have a hint of blue about it rather than the jet black of pubescens.

Nice to know they're still there after the fire.

Dave P.

[Davy Crockett]

I was at Thursley two summers ago the digger wasps were quite numerous.

[WhiskyBottle]

I got pictures of that wasp too, also not very good. At least I know what it is now.

[catwasp]

I'm very relieved to hear that the wasps are still there. I think I shall plan another visit

Cx