Creosote

[Jackaroo]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

I think might explain its use better than I could, Jackaroo.

http://www.wood-protection.org/newpu...rsion_0107.pdf

Thanks for that Woodman. I had heard that creosote had either been made illegal or restricted in it's availability. I haven't used the stuff for many years and was contemplating treating a relatively new section of fence before winter sets in. I'll be sure to read the labels and do my research before settling on the appropriate stuff. Not creosote it seems.

[Johnny Redgate]

Originally Posted by Jackaroo

Aherm, and is creosote illegal to use? Obviously other than using it to decorate a badger's lobby.

Creosote is legally available to professional users for timber treatment and this would include farmers.

I have had nearly 2km of farm fencing put in over the last 8 years and the standard of treated fence posts is currently appalling. They are lucky to last 5 years, including the straining 7-8" diam straining posts. This is due to the ineffectiveness of preservatives being used since a change in regulations, albeit there were realistic health concerns over the previous preservatives being used. It may also be that timber quality is lower also with quicker throughput in the timber yard leading to insufficiently dry posts being treated. I will not buy similar posts again but will get posts that are pressure treated with creosote at double the price but probably 10x the longevity.

[Snidge]

Sorry about the late reply but if it is of any assistance and if there are problems reporting this to the police because 'nothing has happened yet' it should still be reported for intelligence. There is direct reporting by e mail in some Forces and the National Wildlife Crime Unit have a direct reporting form on their website.
I have heard of moles being 'chased off' with creosote or jeyes fluid in the past.

[Brocakat]

Academically, Creosote is not what it was , in its original form for decades -

( I think it was Coal-Tar based, and even though there are less Coal-Fired Power Stations than there used to be , GB still gets 30% of its total electricity requirements from such stations ) -------- it's formulation for its application to fencing, etc etc is now different, and it's 'safer' & allegedly 'kinder' to nature.


---oOo---

By the above, I 'm certainly not condoning its use in relation to Badger Setts.

[Brocakat]

Originally Posted by Johnny Redgate

Creosote is legally available to professional users for timber treatment and this would include farmers.

I have had nearly 2km of farm fencing put in over the last 8 years and the standard of treated fence posts is currently appalling. They are lucky to last 5 years, including the straining 7-8" diam straining posts. This is due to the ineffectiveness of preservatives being used since a change in regulations, albeit there were realistic health concerns over the previous preservatives being used. It may also be that timber quality is lower also with quicker throughput in the timber yard leading to insufficiently dry posts being treated. I will not buy similar posts again but will get posts that are pressure treated with creosote at double the price but probably 10x the longevity.

I would suggest that you ask for your posts to be 'tanolised' , Johnny.
This involves placing the timber into a large airtight container & a vacuum effected, which draws the preservative deeper into the wood. Sawing-through one post as an example will show you how deep the preservative has gone.

But indeed such & ALL fencing should only ever be looked-upon as 'temporary', - as a good thorny hedge ( or Stone-Wall in such parts of the countryside )
is much cheaper to maintain in the long-term, plus it's got XXXX times more value to both wildlife and as a wind-slower ( ie NOT a wind-break, but allowing the wind to pass through at a slower, less-damaging rate ) . Cattle & sheep will appreciate the lee of the hedge or stone-wall as opposed to the nil protection from a wind that a barbed-wire fence gives.

If an established hawthorn fence is flailed twice a year, (biannually) there would be no-need to collect all the cuttings up, as they would be that young & 'soft' that they would either easily rot-down OR be browed by cattle to no ill-effect. Angling the Tractor Flail at about 70 ~ 80 degrees would only mean a cut at each side with no third top-cut . Doing that in July after the main nesting season is over & again in September to the same point. Lay 1/3 of it once per decade --- different sections,which would (a) save you employing more than 1/3 of your fencing costs for the total lengths & (b) Give the wildlife there a chance to migrate to the other 2/3rds.

Fencing is short-termism: -- best viewed as a temporary but essential item to establishment of a hedge. Hedges need NOT take-up a 10 metre wide swathe of a pair of fields - those that do will probablly have a High Wildlife Value - but IF you are a farmer ( or in the Agric. industry ) I understand your possible concern about loss of yields, etc. etc. with Hedges.

The name of the game should be 'compromise' & Farmers should be payed by MAFF for keeping Hedges/dykes, etc. etc. instead of Fences /Culverts etc. etc.

Find out about your local Farming & Wildlife Advisory Group ( FWAG ) - go to :-
www.fwag.org.uk They will tell you the right ways to reach that compromise.

[Johnny Redgate]

Originally Posted by Brocakat

I would suggest that you ask for your posts to be 'tanolised' , Johnny.
This involves placing the timber into a large airtight container & a vacuum effected, which draws the preservative deeper into the wood. Sawing-through one post as an example will show you how deep the preservative has gone.

But indeed such & ALL fencing should only ever be looked-upon as 'temporary', - as a good thorny hedge ( or Stone-Wall in such parts of the countryside )
is much cheaper to maintain in the long-term, plus it's got XXXX times more value to both wildlife and as a wind-slower ( ie NOT a wind-break, but allowing the wind to pass through at a slower, less-damaging rate ) . Cattle & sheep will appreciate the lee of the hedge or stone-wall as opposed to the nil protection from a wind that a barbed-wire fence gives.

The posts were indeed tanalised except that 'tanalin' has now been replaced by 'tanalith' I believe due to environmental concerns, and its not as good. If the timber yards kiln dry or at least air dry the wood to <30% moisture before treatment then you might get 10 or 15 years out of them, but many seem to treat wet wood. It is probably a good idea to ask to see a sample sawn through post though.

Most of my fencing is to provide double fenced boundaries for a disease accreditation scheme whilst also enabling my hedge restoration programme (currently over 500m pleached and planted). I can think of a few conservation management scenarios where fencing would be better than hedges. Thanks for your advice regarding boundaries.

[The Woodman]

Timber treatment is a bit of a minefield. Tanalith E is the latest of the copper based formulations, however, the EA say in their NetRegs, "You can no longer use copper, chromium, arsenic (CCA) type preservatives to treat timber in the UK.

All wood preserving products containing arsenic and chromium were banned from sale from 1 September 2006, following their review under the BPR review programme.

CCA treated wood already in use is not affected.
If CCA treated wood is imported from outside the EU it can only be used for professional and industrial purposes where users do not come into repeated skin contact with it, for example highway safety fencing.

NetRegs at NetRegs - Wood preservatives

Tanalith E info at
Tanalised E

...and having to ensure timber is FSC certified can be more trouble than it's worth in respect of sourcing, etc. My local supplier (estate) can sell imported and treated Polish posts cheaper than its own product. How can that be?