Red Deer Problem.

[fairplay]

A lady I know has recently informed me of a serious (Red) Deer problem in her large garden of 8 +hectares. All her fruit trees are being severely damaged by browsing - first it seems, they went for the plums, apples and pears on the ground, then they ate the ends of the branches and in doing so (by getting up on their hind legs) have snapped the branches up to 3 inches thick and I have had to prune them off to a joint by using a some step ladders.

Now they have started on the bark on the trunks themselves, despite all the orchard trees being very mature with the girths being 10 inches thick on some.

They have even eaten completely a young 5 foot tall Mimossa shrub to her real annoyance and have even stripped the bark off some of the lower Larch branches. (that must taste awful)

The point here is that she loves Venison and wonders if being in a remote private garden, can her son, who lives abroad but has a current firearms certificate for sufficient velocity to legally kill a deer, do so in these conditions ? There is a public footpath on one boundary, so naturally he would have to shoot away from it, but not having a hide to shoot DOWN onto the deer, there is the danger a missed shot from a high velocity rifle could put any trespasser or other public at risk (don't you think), but obviously he would be aware of this.

I am trying to advise her to fork out on better fencing which would then also keep the Muntjac out but this would cost a fortune, but I have heard of painting trees with some concoction based on milk - anyone heard of this ?

As the 2 driveway gates are kept open all the time, it would be impractical to keep a pack of wolves in the grounds

The reds have spread from the herd at Minsmere, come through the Sizewell Belts and move down the disused rail line to Aldeburgh, but as they seem to come every night now, I feel they must shelter in the woods of RSPB North Warren and wonder if the RSPB may have a responsibility here somewhere ?

All sensible suggestions welcome please (we tried Tigers, but they simply ate the neighbours)

Neil.

[Wild-Woman]

Has she sought advice from her local council on this, who would pass it to a professional body to deal with?

[STYRBJORN]

She should contact her local Firearms Enquiry Officer and ask to have her land cleared for .243, unless her son has an open firearms certificate in which case he can legally make the decision himself. There must be shooting points with a solid backstop, otherwise he will need to use a high seat.

PM me if you require more detailed advice.

Ric

[fairplay]

Thanks for the responses.

Turns out her son will not be coming home till Xmas and it was only a half hearted suggestion anyway (about her son shooting them).

But I don't think she realises the problem is likely to get worse in the winter when food become more scarce. I have spoken to a friend who is in the Aldeburgh Allotment Holders Association who tells me the red deer have even been seen in the town itself (very early in the morning).

I cannot see her contacting the council as she likes to keep a low key (has another son in the 'diplomatic service').

Seems she hopes to get by by wrapping chicken fencing around the trees and with enough obstacles the deer may move on to somewhere else which I doubt.

Neil.

[The Woodman]

Your lady friend could contact the local branch of the British Deer Society to find out if there is a local management group that might advise or help out.

Alternatively, the regional branch officer of BASC might provide some help.

If you want any contacts please PM me.

[fairplay]

Many thanks for that, but I strongly suspect these rogue deer are part of the herd from RSPB Minsmere, who in turn make money out of it by having 'deer safari's' during the rut and presumably make a tidy sum out of it.

Plus the deer are a management tool by varying the height of the heather and keeping pine and birch at bay.

Irrespective of that though, why should the neighbours have to suffer the consequences when some of the herd stray further afield ? No doubt the RSPB will argue the deer are free roaming and not their responsibility, but they, along with the National Trust, Suffolk Wildlife Trust, Natural England and the Forestry Commission have created/sustained the ideal conditions for these deer to multiply in number.

I'm very pleased to see these red deer, but I accept they are definitely a problem and management of their numbers is vital, but why should the suffering public have to pay for a professional to be brought in or pay for expensive fencing when really these conservation bodies should foot the bill ?

These are not necessarily my views, but I am just trying to present this from the house owners perspective or give her a case to argue.

There was a similar case some 20 years ago when a man claimed Honey Fungus had spread from neighbouring council own land and had got into his garden and killed his plants. His argument was that the council had failed to maintain their land which allowed the fungus to spread.
This went on for years but the council finally paid up without accepting responsibility.
Equally, I believe a farmer or other land owner, has a legal duty to ensure 'pest species' (Flora or Fauna) do not become a problem for his neighbours.

Anymore opinions please ?

Neil.

EDIT: In Suffolk, we have a body called the Deer Initiative http://www.cla.org.uk/In_Your_Area/E...nt/104822.htm/ who are a group of highly skilled marksmen who provide a service for farmers, etc. and give advise.

[Gill Catton]

I think I have been on the deer safari at minsmere and it was free. Certainly I saw the rutting deer there and it was free. In addition it is likely they they do control the deer where they can as they will have land vulnerable to over-grazing.

I would suggest contacting them for advice and help rather than pre-judging them in an open public forum! They may well have people that can help closer to where your problem is. I'd imagine controlling them at north warren is tricky as there are so many footpaths but they probably still do.

Deer are considered to be one of the biggest threats to woodland birds and the Rspb will be aware of this - probably part funded the research so are not likely to be bambi-huggers. Maybe they won't be able to help, but they are worth a try.

[Hobjob]

Originally Posted by Gill Catton

I think I have been on the deer safari at minsmere and it was free.

The Minsmere 'Safari' is a 4x4 trip round the whole of Minsmere, even the back spots that are off limits to the public (though much is available to the public in the non-breeding season under the 'Access to roam' legislation. They charge for this - not unreasonably as it involves a warden and a 4x4 truck for 2-3 hours. This year they started using volunteers too.

I suspect that the 4x4 safaris doesn't happen during the rut.

I suspect that Gill saw the rut from the Westleton-Dunwich road, where the RSPB man a caravan and monitor the public's stupidity! It involves a 600m walk to get a reasonable view. That is free (but no doubt they have the begging out too!)

I wouldn't want to charged by a randy mature stag - no way

[Hobjob]

There is a fair bit of local unhappiness about the number of red deer in and around Minsmere. I have heard local farmers and gardeners (as in OP) complaining bitterly. It is my impression that numbers are steadily increasing as even during the summer they can be seen daily in largish numbers at several places on Minsmere where, a few years ago, they had to be located by careful scanning with Bins.

The rut is coming up, so the excess numbers at Aldeburgh might be part of deer returning for the annual gang bang? Are they males or females?

The males don't hang about on Minsmere after the rut, and are said to roam quite far into mid and West Suffolk at that time of the year. The females and young are more or less resident though if numbers are increasing a lot will be being 'squeezed' outwards.

Minsmere like them as they not only keep open tracks through the reed-beds, but, along with copious rabbits, are free motor mowers for the grassy areas, and thus help with the successful increase in ground nesting birds - especially Stone Curlew.

As noted above they are also useful on stopping heath decline by birch and pine nibbling. But to manage the silver studded blues there is also periodic mowing of some of the tougher, older heather. The spoil for this they also use on some of the agricultural land-to-heath reversion projects (one of which this year got Stone Curlew nesting on it).

A cull of deer on Minsmere?
That would be a lively debate

[STYRBJORN]

The worst risk is that the deer will ringbark the fruit trees, killing them. The RSPB cull deer in a regular basis on land they own and are undoubtedly the best people to contact if your neighbour doesn't want to get too involved in the details.

Ric