Urgent Help Please - baby water vole found

[posie]

I too hope Natasha won't mind...

Wherever I have seen grass-snakes here they are, as Woodman says, in slightly damp humid conditions, e.g. in the banks of straw around the edges of the stables, which are damp through slight soiling...also we had a lot breed in a pile of damp soiled shavings from stables, which was piled up on concrete, we didn't see much of the parents but the babies used to slither across the concrete and into the nearest stable..I wondered if they were looking for water, so I put down a large shallow dish of water, but didn't actually see them use it..
I do wonder if Woodman's idea of Onduline might be better for some species, because it wouldn't get so hot in HOT sun as tin would, haven't tried it for wildlife myself, but it is on the stable rooves..(BTW ONLY drawback is ..not such a long life as tin)..Posie..

[werdnal]

Thanks for replies Woodman and Posie.

The grass snake my son saw was on the edge of the drainage ditch which runs alongside our field, so its obviously found a damp patch that it likes. 2 of the "tins" are alongside this, either side of where he saw it. The one in the shorter grazed area is in virtually full sun most of the day, whilst the other 2 have dappled shade, from the hedge until around mid-day, then lose the sun again by tea-time. Obviously neither of these will be quite so hot, but the increase in temperature at the hottest part of the day, may put them off. I'll try checking early and late and see whether any difference!

We will leave them down for the rest of the summer and see what happens. We were just surprised they have attracted nothing - not even mice/voles - perhaps the odd insect, but thats all!

[posie]

Hi Werndel,
My guess is that if the tins were put down over dry earth, ie at a time when earth had dried out due to dry weather, and subsequently because they are there, that piece of earth under them has remained dry, the 'humidity' and dampness is lacking...I would try thoroughly wetting a further area and put another tin down on it...worth a try..also thoroughly rub the tin on both sides with grass and earth, to remove any scents from it's previous use...Posie..

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by werdnal

My son saw what I think from his description was a grass snake in our field last month. I have seen them here before (we ended up with one indoors once). We are currently re-roofing some old pig styes and my hubby took some old corrugated and cut into 3-4ft squares. We have put these in 3 places around our field, about 6 weeks ago now. 2 are in a long ungrazed patch of rough grass near where the snake was seen, and one in a short grass area, but surrounded by tall nettles.

How big is your field? if it is full of natural habitat features you may find that 3 sheets are do not give you enough scope for finding the snakes (more so slow worms and other reptiles). Ideally you want to be targeting ecotones or edges of different habitats. This could be something as simple as long grass into short grass. Grass snakes like to bask on the edge of dense vegetation so they can make a quick retreat, they also prefer the humid conditions associated with it. Although egg laying occurs within manure, compost, decomposing vegetation they are not dependent on this as a heat source, although they often bask on these habitats or amongst them. So the sheets are often not greatly successful with this species. I would target areas of mixed vegetation structure, banks, bases of hedgerows, areas close to water courses etc.

Originally Posted by werdnal

Although we check them once a week, we have not seen any sign of snakes or slowworms.

I would check it every day. The timing is important too, grass snakes at this time of year will be basking early on a morning as soon as the sun starts to warm up, around 10-11 degrees they will start to bask and become more active as it warms up. You need to get up early and check, but in comparison to other reptiles grass snakes are a more fond of basking in or close to vegetation (manure, etc) rather than sheets.

Originally Posted by werdnal

Are we doing something wrong?

It is important that you approach any sheeting, or habitat which may support basking grass snakes very slowly, make light foot fall, walk down wind if possible and try to make as few vibrations as you can. They are sensitive to both vibrations and smell. You can talk although I would not recommend shouting. Grass snakes are extremely nervous much more so than adders or slow worms and the slightest hint of you there and they will dive into cover very quickly often without you knowing they were ever there.

Originally Posted by werdnal

Should we re-site them or leave alone? Have they been there long enough if anything was going to use them? Is there a particular time of day when we are more likely to catch sight of anything? Any advice appreciated, thanks

See my above points, you may want to re-jig them but concentrate more on natural vegetation features. Early morning and a small period in the evening would be the best times to check at this time of year. The actual tin sounds old if it has been part of a roof so could potentially get results instantly, new sheets tend not to be as successful due to the smell they create. I think in this case its simply the habit of the grass snake that is resulting in it not going under the tin. Checking at the hottest part of the day is probably pointless. A very good time for finding basking grass snakes (and other reptiles) is when you get hot sunny weather after a heavy shower when the vegetation is wet. They only really use the sheets to warm up then move off into better habitats.

Originally Posted by werdnal

The grass snake my son saw was on the edge of the drainage ditch which runs alongside our field, so its obviously found a damp patch that it likes. 2 of the "tins" are alongside this, either side of where he saw it. The one in the shorter grazed area is in virtually full sun most of the day, whilst the other 2 have dappled shade, from the hedge until around mid-day, then lose the sun again by tea-time. Obviously neither of these will be quite so hot, but the increase in temperature at the hottest part of the day, may put them off. I'll try checking early and late and see whether any difference!

The other point worth making about grass snakes is that they are extremely wide ranging. They often occupy a range of areas i.e. they breed at one site, hibernate at another, feed at another in comparison to other more sedentary species. The snake you have seen could have been using the drainage ditch as a commuting route way between sites. If your field offers insufficient foraging, hibernating or breeding habitat there is no reason for one to stay, they can travel 300 metres + a day no problem.

They prefer hot areas and only really move into shade when it becomes really hot in the middle of the day, they wouldn't be under a sheet at this time.

You say you have pig styes what do you do with the muck? have you checked this? look for small holes and basking snakes on top of it.

The best way to attract them is to place some mounds of decaying vegetation, manure in the field (away from the ditch though) and build a pond if you can. A pond near the ditch would be fantastic. You would then have provide foraging, breeding/egg laying and hibernation sites, what more would a snake possibly want.

Slow worms are a bit of a different topic.

Regarding water voles it doesnt sound like it was them, but they can nest above ground so never say never. If it was a water vole nest and the firm got prosecuted then the implications to the contractors and development would be far worse than if you told NE about them.

Good luck with the snake, cheers DH.

[Natasha_38]

LOL, I haven't minded at all, it's been interesting! We have grass snakes at the bottom of our garden in what will be a vegetable patch - at the moment it is like a jungle with so many weeds! Still it's given the snakes more of a cover - they live in an old compost heap that was left from the previous tenant.

I have only seen them briefly through the fencing, I haven't wanted to go in & disturb them, I'm worried with all the weeds that I may tread on one.

When we do come to clearing the area (it will probably be a while) we will have to be careful & make provisions for them, I'll have to come back & start another thread!

Back to the voles .... still not sure what it was, the size of the parents sort of look bigger than field voles but, still not sure. The blokes at site have been checking almost daily & have not seen any more.

I think things at (some) construction sites have changed a lot. The ones I work on we have very strict guidelines we have to follow & have multiple surveys regarding animal habitats. You'd be suprised & how much some of the site managers go out of their way to accomodate some of the animals at site. We hired in a second excavator the week as a couple of long tailed tits have made a nest in one already on site & the driver didn't want to disturb them

[dampflippers]

Water voles are about the size of a rat.
A rat has a bare long tail. A water vole has a furry tail with is shorter (than the body)
Field and bank voles are about the size of a mouse.

[Dogghound]

Originally Posted by Natasha_38

You'd be suprised & how much some of the site managers go out of their way to accomodate some of the animals at site. We hired in a second excavator the week as a couple of long tailed tits have made a nest in one already on site & the driver didn't want to disturb them

Nesting birds (most species there are exceptions) are fully protected under the W&C act. So it would have been an offence to damage the nest in this situation as you knew it was there. It is good that another vehicle was used.

Regarding the bird species are you sure they were long tailed tits? this species builds its nest in such a way that it would be almost impossible for it to build a nest in or on an excavator. It is also to late for long tailed tits to be breeding now. Could they have been pied wagtail or similar?