I need some rat advice please!

[The Woodman]

As one who has to suffer the presence of rats in my house, I can empathise with the OP's situation.

I also see valleyforges viewpoint and would commend the use of strobe lighting rather than lethal methods.

Personally, I was not prepared to put up with destruction of wiring, goods in storage etc. so I resorted to an approved poison despite all my misgivings and potential secondary poisoning issues. It did the job quickly and efficiently, I collected the accessible cadavers. I have no problem with my actions and expect many others not to agree with my MO.

Granted, this is not a pest control forum, neither is a photography forum, camera forum, political forum etc but those subjects are tolerated. I think the question about rat control is relevant here, there will be many views as valleyforge says and the result is that one suggested method may be attractive to Sherlockonian.

One questioned hasn't been answered. A trap has dissapeared. It is likely that a rat has been caught in the mechanism and dragged it away to die elsewhere. Some traps sold for rat capture are too light in my opinion. The large snap trap can catch any body part with the inevitable result of being dragged away.

[Hedgehoggy]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

I also see valleyforges viewpoint and would commend the use of strobe lighting rather than lethal methods.

I second that.

I wonder if placing some cat or dog fur around your loft from a recently groomed pet might make your unwanted house guests vacate pdq? Has anybody ever tried this? If you don’t have a cat or dog of your own, I’m sure there’ll be somebody you know that does.

I like VF’s radio/constant disturbance methods too. If you don’t have a transistor radio you could place a hi-fi speaker in your loft and play something like Cliff Richard on a repeat loop. Second thoughts, the humans would probably vacate before the rodents! (apologies if I’ve offended any Cliff fans).

[Sherlockonian]

ValleyForge, not sure what your issue is. I have fully taken your points on board and have respected your opinions.

I don't personally hate or fear rats but many people do and understandably so. They have bitten children, maimed pets and are generally destructive to other forms of wildlife. However everything has its place and that includes rats. Yet I have 2 small children and am on an end terrace with neighbours who also have children, so I have responsibilities. I tend to put the health and wellbeing of humans before animals (depending on the human ), especially when it comes to my own family.

I have already stated that I will look at the strobe lighting as an option. I like the idea of pet hair about the place too, I feel a bit daft asking neighbours for their pet hair so will send the kids out to stroke as many cats as they can and collect the fur!

We've noticed next door's ivy is growing into the eaves of their house and have already told them we have rats in the loft, but my husband is now convinced that they are getting up via the ivy. I feel cheeky asking them to cut it back but these rats could be getting into every house on the row. My husband is going to offer to cut it for them so hopefully that should seal off their access route.

Thanks for all the replies. And I agree woodman, the traps are very light so it might be worth securing them to floor if you ever have the need to use them again. I'm hoping we don't have to.

[The Woodman]

Rats can scale Ivy with the ease of a fireman climbing a ladder.

Hopefully your husbands offer may reduce or stop the rats entering your property. It should keep Cliff happy, too.

[valleyforge]

Originally Posted by Sherlockonian

ValleyForge, not sure what your issue is.

I really have no issue with you Sherlockonian.

You asked for input on your rat problem from a wildlife expert ... by which I supposed you meant someone with an above average knowledge of rats as mammals (this is the mammal forum), and not just someone with an above average knowledge of killing them (the Bushcraft and Field Sports forum may be your best bet for that ... you might even get a few good recipe tips. )

I fully appreciate that for many people, rats are an emotive issue ... however, much of how we regard rats is down to the 'bad press' they have been given for such a long time ... but what you think we 'know' about them is a usually a skewed collection of half-truths, misconceptions, or downright prejudice borne out of ignorance ... which of course breeds fear.

Websites such as this one can be quite important in helping to shift our collective perceptions of our wild animals, but equally they are just as 'good' at recirculating damaging propaganda, when discussed topics are approached with a closed mind, instead of a willingness to learn about those things that we can admit to ourselves we don't perhaps properly understand.

For many folk, the very word 'rat' probably conjures up a distasteful image ... whereas most people regard the mental-image of 'red squirrel' somewhat more fondly ... but why exactly? At the physiological level, there's not such a great difference between these species of rodents, who even share some habits that some folk would find distasteful.

In appearance, rats and squirrels closely resemble each other to perhaps about the same degree as a labrador and a collie. And yet, for many rat = uughh, whilst red squirrel = cute.

It's not so very long ago though that red squirrels were thought of as 'vermin, in exactly the same way as rats are still, but we have managed to alter our collective perceptions of them at last ... but only after almost wiping them out in the British Isles by persecution (and no it wasn't the grey squirrels to blame for the decline in numbers). But wouldn't you be horrified if someone now suggested using lethal traps or poison to control the damage that red squirrels are capable of doing to 'our property'?

Rodents of course have no concept of 'personal property', so it can't be right to find them blameworthy when they infringe upon what we consider to be 'ours'. Tackling any conflict with wildlife is always better done from an informed stance and a proper understanding of the animal, rather than acting rashly and unfairly upon our base fears.

For most of us of course, there is no conflict with rats, because they coexist all around us largely unnoticed. There's no need to unnecessarily vilify an animal simply for 'being'. 'Pest' and 'Vermin' are products of a negative human mindset ... if you can alter how you perceive these animals, and are smart enough to outmanoeuvre their attempts to live their lives in too close proximity to you, then there needn't ever be reason for conflict ... only opportunities to marvel at another form of wildlife.

Originally Posted by Bobby D

As I understand it is a proven fact that rats carry some pretty awful diseases that they can spread among the human population there is a particularly nasty disease called lyme disease that can be caught by swinming in rivers it is caused by the urine of rats

I think you mean Weil's Disease (leptospirosis) ... Lyme disease is an infection borne by the Ixodes (deer/sheep) tick. Surveys in the UK have found only 37.6% of rats to be infected with leptospirosis.

Children are at much greater risk of disease from associating with the neighbour's children, than they are realistically going to be from an encounter with a rat.

[Sherlockonian]

Thanks ValleyForge. Yes I was aware that this is the mammal section of the forum as rats are mammals. And yes I am posting here instead of on Hugh Fearnley Whittingstall's recipe page because I know that I am more realistically likely to find someone with experience and knowledge of rats who might be able to offer me alternative ways of getting rid of them.

To that extent I have been successful.

There is a good article here BBC Inside Out - Rats which is very informative about rats and the diseases they carry.

I don't think anyone who has contributed to this thread has done so with a closed mind. We've all nodded to the points raised and have shared experiences which has offered a more detailed insight into rat behaviour and possible deterrents for them.

Prevention is far better than the cure in this case. So when we are sure there are no live rats up in the loft we will do everything necessary to prevent them from entering the property and/or neighbouring properties and by doing so we can prevent more rats from coming to harm via traps and poison.

Personally I believe that cats are much more destructive than rats and they can be aggressive too, but I'd probably get short shrift if I asked for advice on getting rid of cats Mind you, if my home was invaded by cats I wouldn't be too impressed either.

I'll skip the Cliff Richard idea, he might attract other forms of vermin

[Bobby D]

Life & style
Health & wellbeing


Weil's disease: the cause, the symptoms and the precautions to take

The death of Olympic rower Andy Holmes has highlighted the danger of infected animal urine in water




Jon Henley
Jon Henley
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 26 October 2010 20.00 BST
Article history

Weil's disease can be carried in water contaminated with rats' urine
Weil's disease can be carried in water contaminated with rats' urine. Photograph: Mike Lane /Alamy

Weil's disease, believed to have caused the death this week of Olympic gold medal-winning rower Andy Holmes, is the acute human form of a bacterial infection with a raft of different names: mud fever, swamp fever, haemorrhagic jaundice, swineherd's disease, sewerman's flu. All are known as Leptospirosis, mild cases of which affect millions of people every year worldwide.

The infection is caught through contact with infected animal urine (mainly from rodents, cattle or pigs), generally in contaminated water, and typically enters the body through cuts or scrapes, or the lining of the nose, mouth, throat or eyes. Only a very few patients experience the severe, life-threatening illness known as Weil's disease, thought to kill two or three people a year in Britain.

After an incubation period that can vary from three days to three weeks, most patients suffer severe headaches, red eyes, muscle pains, fatigue, nausea and a temperature of 39C or above. In roughly a third of cases there is a skin rash; sometimes hallucinations.

In very severe cases, symptoms include haemorrhaging from the mouth, eyes and internally. There is significant and rapid organ damage: liver and kidney failure can occur within 10 days, leading to jaundice (these are the only cases that can properly be called Weil's disease). Hospitalisation, followed by antibiotics and often dialysis, will be required if the patient is to survive. Recovery can take months.

According to British Rowing, the risk of contracting Weil's disease from recreational water in the UK is "very small". Infection is logically more likely in slow-moving or stagnant water and areas where agriculture and rodents mix; lakes, ponds and canals are more likely to be contaminated than fast-running streams, although some activities – angling, for example, where minor cuts and nicks are common, and swimming, where some water will almost inevitably enter the mouth – could heighten exposure.

Rowers and canoeists should cover all cuts and abrasions; avoid splashing themselves, or swallowing potentially contaminated water; wash their hands carefully and if possible shower afterwards; and wash all equipment and clothing regularly. Anyone experiencing flu-like symptoms after contact with fresh water should see their doctor immediately.