fox problem,,,

[Hedgehoggy]

By your own admission, on several occasions (highlighted below), the bottom line in relation to Lola C’s (and my subsequent similar) question ‘can any one kill foxes?'

The answer is clearly NO! There are certain provisos as you have kindly pointed out...

Originally Posted by eeyore

Anyone can kill a fox at any time - providing they have the permission of the landowner or are otherwise authorised to do so (the latter proviso applying to council pest control officers who are authorised to act on public land)

Originally Posted by eeyore

- the classification of foxes as 'vermin' or not is irrelevant as they are not protected and can be killed by authorised persons by approved methods at any time anyway -

Originally Posted by eeyore

because as I said higher up they arent on the protected list and anyone can kill them in an approved manner at anytime so long as they asre authorised to do so by the landowner

Thanks for the clarification. I’m now satisfied that if unauthorised Joe Public is reading this, he may now think twice about progressing from using a hedgehog as a football, to self appointing himself as a fox pest controller by whatever means he deemed fitting.

I’m now unsubscribing to this thread.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

By your own admission, on several occasions (highlighted below), the bottom line in relation to Lola C’s (and my subsequent similar) question ‘can any one kill foxes?'

The answer is clearly NO! There are certain provisos as you have kindly pointed out...

.

theres nothing like a bit of selective quoting

the answer is clearly YES - anyone can kill foxes in certain circumstances. ( if the question posed was can anyone kill foxes anywhere at anytime in anyway ? the answer would be no - but that isnt what was asked )


Anyone can legally kill foxes on their own land so long as they employ lawful means

Anyone can legally kill foxes on land they dont own if they are authorised to do so by the landowner - providing they employ lawful means.

Some people - e.g agents of the EHO , council pest controllers, those contracted to them etc , are also authorised to act on public land

you seem to be taking authorised to mean official - which it doesnt , in this context it means anyone with the authority to act (ie either on their own land or with the permission of the land owner)

And 'lawful means' implies a legally held fiream of suitable calibre used responsibly, snaring (set responsibly), lamp and long dog (again used responsibly), and cage trapping.

So going right back to the OP if Foxy pal's neighbour shoots a fox on his own land he isnt commiting an offence (so long as he has a licenced firearm, and shoots in a way that doesnt endanger anyone), if he cage traps a fox then shoots it with a 410 then he again doesnt commit an offence, if he calls the council pest control people to kill it they dont commit an offence if they do so on his land or on public land(so long as they use lawful means).

[Hedgehoggy]

I interpreted the usage of anyone in the literal sense. You don’t need authorisation/provisos to kill rats, mice, voles, shrews, but you do to kill a fox. ‘Tis all I was trying to establish.


@ Styrbjorn. If you feel the need to PM me any more bad jokes, at least have the courtesy to send something a little more original!

[pressld2]

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

You don’t need authorisation/provisos to kill rats, mice, voles, shrews, but you do to kill a fox.

I think you probably do need authorisation to kill anything on someone else's property. If my neighbour spots a rat in my garden he can't kill it unless it moves into his garden. And the provisos that it be done humanely and without endangering others would still apply. There are different legal definitions of what is humane, e.g. poison is allowed for rats but not for foxes, but there are killing methods that would be illegal for rats, too.

Dave P.

[Hedgehoggy]

I’m digging myself into a deeper hole here! I wasn’t referring to other people’s property in that last remark, I was trying to condense facts down to absolute basics, to establish that you do need authorisation (perhaps that's not the right word) at some level to kill a fox. And I certainly shouldn’t have said provisos aren’t needed to kill rats, etc., - more haste less speed - but what’s done is done and I’m definitely out of this thread now.

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Hedgehoggy

I interpreted the usage of anyone in the literal sense. You don’t need authorisation/provisos to kill rats, mice, voles, shrews, but you do to kill a fox. ‘Tis all I was trying to establish.

As Dave says that isnt so - the provisions are the same for all mammals not protected under the WCA/Crow - You can kill any of them on your own land or with landowner permission.

The only difference is in what is considered to be a humane method (e.g for 'small ground vermin' ( a phrase from the '54 pests act which covers mice (not dormouse), rats, squirels, rabbits, weasels and stoats, and moles) you can use spring traps appropriately set - poison or gas can be used on rodents, and gas (but not poison) can be used on rabbits. Rabbits, Rats, and squirels can also be shot with air rifles (over 10ftlb muzzle velocity) - you could theoretically also shoot the rest of the small ground vermin list but that isnt a practical proposition.

there are though as dave says some methods that are banned for all species - such as drowning as that guy who drowned a squirel found out last year, other banned methods include the use of glue , deadfall traps, shooting with a bow or crossbow, shooting with a firearm of insufficient calibre or power to kill cleanly etc

(voles and shrews are on the protected list and shouldnt be taken at all)

The larger unprottected mamals such as feral cat - can only be taken by shooting or cage trapping etc as per foxes

Muntjac are an oddity as they are actually listed as game and are thus theoretically protected under the WCA , but in practice can be treated as not because there is no close season so the same provisos apply as for fox (except that they cant be lamped, taken with a lurcher or snared or trapped - only shot) - that said the BASC code of practice suggests that lactating females are not shot during the breeding season.

In my opinion the law is something of an ass with the number of different species provisos - if poison is inhumane for a fox, why is it okay for a rat - if a fox can be lamped and shot why can't deer be taken at night with a light and so on and so forth - come to that with the codes of practice if you wouldnt shoot a lactating doe why is it okay to shoot a milky vixen r a mother squirel ( Muntjac are just as much of a pest to woodlands as grey squiz) and so on