Big cat

[nigel_b]

Originally Posted by ~T~

Not enough proof the place is TEEMING with them I had written. Enough proof that the odd one does escape. As also mentioned the majority of sightings are of black cats yet no black cats have ever been found (dead or alive).

I don't think anyone on my side of the fence ever claimed the countryside was teeming with them?

The last time the forum had this ridiculous arguement it ended up..

"ah yes but that doesnt prove there are viable breeding populations..."

this time its

"ah yes but that doesnt prove the place is TEEMING with them..."

but we didn't claim either of those things?

The way I see it, I post that I believe I have seen a big cat.

Then I'm told it must have been something else, get told stories about fairies etc etc.

Then finally the forum seems to admit there might have been one or two around in the 1990's but they've all gone now. Really? How does anyone know they have all gone now and how does anyone know when I saw the one I did?

[ViperaBerus]

Since when did we go from the claim that there are a few isolated big cats at large in the UK, to the place being TEEMING with them?

Obviously the illegal trade in big cats (or non native species) does not see as many individual specimens coming into the country as smaller species such as snakes etc, but in terms of business, the trade in these species is big, but confined to the rich or people with large grounds.

[STYRBJORN]

At least one poster in the last thread claimed that the cats reported now must be the descendents of those released when the DWA Act was passed, since the original animals would have died, thus there must be a breeding population. About as circular an argument as I have ever seen! Certainly the red tops sell newspapers by giving that impression.

nigel_b, as you said, we have kept this amiable on both sides. It strikes me that apart from the odd loony on either side, we are all pretty well in agreement. Let's not start picking nits!

Ric

[RoyW]

Originally Posted by nigel_b

Exactly what I predicted, exactly.

You have proof, but not enough proof.

If you were to compare the number of reports of racoons and skunks "at large" in the UK with the number of reports of big cats, and then compared these with the number of fully identifiable photos of these species taken in the UK, + the number of escaped individuals reported captured, what would this suggest?
There are very few reports of escaped racoons and skunks, but countless reports of big cats. However, there are good photos of the first two, and although there are very few claimed sightings there are a few that have been reported as captured or run over/found dead. So why so little evidence of big cats if they are anywhere near as frequent as the number of reports suggest?

Originally Posted by nigel_b

The way I see it, I post that I believe I have seen a big cat.

Then I'm told it must have been something else, get told stories about fairies etc etc.

Then finally the forum seems to admit there might have been one or two around in the 1990's but they've all gone now. Really? How does anyone know they have all gone now and how does anyone know when I saw the one I did?

On previous similar threads some of those who say that they have seen big cats apparently get very upset at suggestions that they might have been mistaken - and some are likely to have been mistaken.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that those who are sceptics have changed their opinion.
Reading through posts on this thread, and earlier ones, I see no such change; a few big cats (or at least biggish cats) do escape (I would expect nothing less considering the number in captivity). The following was my first post on a thread last October:

Originally Posted by RoyW

There is no reason at all to doubt that there are occasionally big cats on the loose in the UK. There are a number of cases where big cats that have allegedly been shot or captured, and although some of these may be hoaxes, there seems to bit little doubt that others are genuine (eg. the Lynx captured in Cricklewood in 2001: 'Beast of Cricklewood' captured by RSPCA - This Britain, UK - The Independent ).
However, I do not believe that there is any satisfactory evidence that there are anything other than very occassional escaped big cats living wild in Britain, and it would surprise me if the vast majority of reported sightings are anything more than mistaken identity (however convinced the observers are at the time).

As for the reference to stories about fairies, if you mean the post I made on this thread, then you asked for it (and I mean that literally):

Originally Posted by nigel_b

I know, I know, in your book it isnt irrefutable evidence but show me where the BBC have seriously reported sightings of fairies please.

The media carries any story that they think may be of interest to their readers/viewers/listeners - unfortunately it doesn't make the stories any more credible.

You just have to accept that reports get questioned, and the more unusual they are considered the more likely they are to be queried.
WAB carries quite regularly reports of Goshawk sightings, many of which are queried with the observers told that they are likely to be mistaken and that they have probably seen a Sparrowhawk. If they have photos this is often shown to be the case. I don't however tend to see the people making these reports complaining that their sightings aren't believed (even if they say that they are experienced and are certain about what they have seen).

[ViperaBerus]

Originally Posted by RoyW

WAB carries quite regularly reports of Goshawk sightings, many of which are queried with the observers told that they are likely to be mistaken and that they have probably seen a Sparrowhawk. If they have photos this is often shown to be the case. I don't however tend to see the people making these reports complaining that their sightings aren't believed (even if they say that they are experienced and are certain about what they have seen).

It's a fair point, but the big difference in that case, is the fact that those who may have mistakenly seen a Sparrowhawk are not mocked and put down like those who report seeing a big cat.

[nigel_b]

Originally Posted by RoyW

If you were to compare the number of reports of racoons and skunks "at large" in the UK with the number of reports of big cats, and then compared these with the number of fully identifiable photos of these species taken in the UK, + the number of escaped individuals reported captured, what would this suggest?
There are very few reports of escaped racoons and skunks, but countless reports of big cats. However, there are good photos of the first two, and although there are very few claimed sightings there are a few that have been reported as captured or run over/found dead. So why so little evidence of big cats if they are anywhere near as frequent as the number of reports suggest?

Sometimes its just not worth chewing through the restraints in the morning.

I have absolutely no idea what the answers to your questions are.

[ViperaBerus]

Racoons and skunks will come into human habitation and urban areas for food far more frequently than cat species. Their habits, diet, nature and size means they get far more domesticated in captivity due to closer human interaction than a cat that can kill it's owner if it is having a bad day. If racoons etc escape, they are far more likely to be less nervous and even actively seek out food in urban areas. So there are huge amounts of differences and variables to consider. Cats are incredibly secretive in nature compared to those outgoing and gregarious species mentioned.

[STYRBJORN]

Concise Oxford 1998 "raccoon". Double "c". Just thought you'ld like to know.

[The Woodman]

Originally Posted by STYRBJORN

Concise Oxford 1998 "raccoon". Double "c". Just thought you'ld like to know.

or

World English Dictionary
raccoon or racoon (rəˈkuːn)

— n , pl -coons , -coon
1. any omnivorous mammal of the genus Procyon , esp P. lotor ( North American raccoon ), inhabiting forests of North and Central America and the Caribbean: family Procyonidae ,

[STYRBJORN]

Originally Posted by The Woodman

or

World English Dictionary
raccoon or racoon (rəˈkuːn)

— n , pl -coons , -coon
1. any omnivorous mammal of the genus Procyon , esp P. lotor ( North American raccoon ), inhabiting forests of North and Central America and the Caribbean: family Procyonidae ,