Badger cull in Wales

[Eryri]

Is this the same Dr Chris Cheeseman who said the same thing five years ago (January 2006) to a Committee of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs at Westminster in London. I was wondering how this list is 'growing', unless of course he has obtained longer stature since he retired. I'm afraid Westminster spin doesn't work well in Wales.

Cheeseman

As for his claim that badgers would move out of the area and settle elsewhere, I look forward to the splash. Perhaps PAC will issue the badgers with buoyancy aids for their dip in the Irish sea ?

[stripee]

The list includes Dr Robbie McDonald head of FERA and many other important scientists.

As for Westminster spin, Wales does not seem to mind Westminster money from English taxpayers. It makes me wonder just how Wales will manage when Plaid have made it into their own little kingdom without handouts.

It is true that the Irish Sea is one of the boundaries, however, Pembrokeshire is not an island and apart from the Teifi the other boundaries are not bounded by anything other than minor obstacles for badgers.

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by stripee

As for Westminster spin, Wales does not seem to mind Westminster money from English taxpayers. It makes me wonder just how Wales will manage when Plaid have made it into their own little kingdom without handouts.

You should note that the tax rates in Wales are the same as that in England, the suggestion that our taxes belongs to 'Westminster' is false. I do not regard any services in Wales paid from taxes as a 'handout', no more than services provided in some parts of the inner cities of England. Again, you made specific reference to Plaid in your comments. I should also remind you that the vast majority of ALL political parties in Wales support the cull.

[stripee]

Elin Jones is the Plaid minister for rural affairs It was her decision. In forthcoming elections people may like to ask their MPs where they stand on this and other environmental issues if they don't want to see their wildlife destroyed.

There is a rally for the badgers in Cardiff 8 March at 12 midday outside the Welsh Assembly building.
Further details are here SAVE THE BADGER

[eeyore]

Originally Posted by Eryri

You should note that the tax rates in Wales are the same as that in England, the suggestion that our taxes belongs to 'Westminster' is false. I do not regard any services in Wales paid from taxes as a 'handout', no more than services provided in some parts of the inner cities of England. Again, you made specific reference to Plaid in your comments. I should also remind you that the vast majority of ALL political parties in Wales support the cull.

no the point about "handouts" is that more tax payers money is spent in wales than is raised from welsh taxation - therefore westminster and essentially the english tax payer is subsidising the welsh expenditure - if plaid got their own way this would stop and they would need to put tax up inside wales to keep the same level of public expenditure.

[ZeusS]

I suggest that anyone who has an interest in bTB should read the recently published ‘Public Health and bovine tuberculosis – what’s all the fuss about’ by Paul R Torgerson and David J Torgenson. It is a very well researched and referenced article, which concludes that bTB control in cattle is irrelevant as a public health policy and there is little evidence either for a positive cost benefit in terms of animal health of bTB control. It suggests that such evidence is required; otherwise there is little justification for the large sums of money spent on bTB control in the UK. It is time for a radical re-think on policy.

[GavinWheeler]

Originally Posted by ZeusS

[...] and there is little evidence either for a positive cost benefit in terms of animal health of bTB control. [...]

It has long been shown that culling not only has little evidence for a positive cost benefit, but has strong evidence for costing several times what it saves in bovine TB in cattle alone. One you take account of the fact that a 5 year badger cull has been shown to double the 'prevalence' (% of infected animals) of TB in badgers you can see why the scientists are so adamant that culling will only make TB worse.

[GavinWheeler]

oops - link to the article ZeusS mentions is here. You have to pay for the full text.

[Eryri]

Originally Posted by stripee

Elin Jones is the Plaid minister for rural affairs

Correct, she is a Minister in the Labour/Plaid 'OneWales coalition government.

Originally Posted by stripee

It was her decision.

Wrong. It was passed by a full plenary of the Senedd. Elin has one vote out of 60.

Originally Posted by stripee

In forthcoming elections people may like to ask their MPs where they stand on this and other environmental issues if they don't want to see their wildlife destroyed.

I hope so. The MPs/candidates who have been supportive of the cull are set to win more votes, if opinion polls are anything to go by. One of the major 'environmental issues' is support for more eco-friendly forms of agriculture, this does involve a cull of badgers, in the same way some would argue a wind turbine ruins the landscape.

[GavinWheeler]

Originally Posted by Eryri

Wrong. It was passed by a full plenary of the Senedd. Elin has one vote out of 60.

You do like your assertive but wrong statements.

The Assembly passed the Order by which Elin Jones claims the right to do this. She made the decision.

This was confirmed to me in person by Dr Glossop, the chief vet (who despite my disagreement with her on this topic, came over as a very nice person) after the Order was passed - Elin Jones alone was going to make the decision to cull or not to cull.